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Thread: runners can no longer lower their heads

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by jomo View Post
    I was thinking that maybe we could eliminate blows to the head from boxing.
    Good idea... and we have to tone down the violence in MMA. In fact, why don't we resurrect the equipment from jousting where the riders can wear a metal helmet. Body armour might be appropriate instead of the current pads.

    You're right about the lawyers, jomo. Everything in our lives is jacked up in price to cover liability costs.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by zimonami View Post
    Good to see you, Stray>
    I didn't get that part until now... taking 15 yds off of the play result. Good, I like that.
    But, what if it results in a TD? Put the ball out on the 15?
    Good to see you too man, and yes I believe that will be the case, but I have not seen the specifics on the rule yet. From what I have learned so far, yes the ball will be placed on the 15.

    I wanna also add that this rule is not a RB rule...this is an open field rule. Even plays like Shockeys brutal mauling in that famous play against the Eagles would have been called back 15 yards.
    Last edited by StrahanSoup92; 03-22-2013 at 06:44 AM.

  3. #243
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimonami View Post
    Thank you for correcting me. That makes a whole lot more sense... I did read GF420 wrong. A much higher incidence.
    You're absolutely right about youth leagues. They are undoubtedly taking this quite seriously. Already their numbers have decreased in recent years with all the concussion emphasis.
    I remember when I first got my NCAA ref's credentials (back around '73). They start you at the Pee Wee and Freshmen HS level. My own kids were only 6 and 3, so I wasn't used to seeing a Pee Wee game. My first surprise was walking onto the field and realizing that there was an ambulance, ready to go... and, it did. I hated seeing 10 year old kids getting broken collar bones, etc., and I saw a lot of it. So, when my kids got old enough I told them they had to stick with soccer until they were in HS and their bodies matured a bit more. I was glad I waited... soccer was better for them at that age of 9, 10.
    Yes, I had the same attitude about having my 2 sons wait until freshman year in HS.

    In fact, I was actually convinced irreversibly years earlier by something Larry Csonka said on some daytime TV show in the early 70s when he was still in his prime. The discussion turned to Pop Warner and other organized youth football. Czonka was adamantly opposed to having kids younger than 15 playing organized tackle football, and that if and when he had kids he would insist they wait until then. His reason was the fact that human skulls aren't fully formed before that age (especially the top center of the skull, which never completely fuses together anyway, where there is still a significant gap--exposing part of the brain--until one reaches mid adolescence).

    That was enough for me! The combination of the fervid opinion of a pro whose yards were all gained by butting and fighting his way through mass quantities of large angry men--and who was at the time the best at doing it--and my acquisition of scientific information years later confirming his comments about the development of the human skull were all I needed to make the decision about my sons waiting until HS.

  4. #244
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dezzzR View Post
    It happens so fast these refs wont be able to tell.
    That in a nut shell is the problem. That and the fact that these guys call penalties on things they "think" they saw instead of clearly saw.

    The NFL needs to make sure the officials never call any penalty unless it's unquestionable. If there is any question, don't call it. There should never be flags getting picked up for "non-calls."
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  5. #245
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGiantDynasty View Post
    1) You bend at the knees and hips with your head TILTED UP and sliding to the off side of the defender while using your defender side shoulder making contact. You NEVER lead with head first. If you seriously think Trent was using proper technique you need to some research.

    2) You mean the same players that are now brain damaged and suing the NFL?

    3) Bringing up past players is a moot point. You are under the impression that they as perfectly sound from a technique standpoint. These pro athletes have coach's for a reason. Because they aren't perfect and still need to improve their technique.

    4) for every player complaining I can name 1 or 2 that are for the rule. Players ***** about everything.
    If you watch it again you will see that his head is tilted and it appears he is attacking the players right shoulder.

    http://boards.giants.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=25347&dateline=138526  4905 Get well, get back #80

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    If you watch it again you will see that his head is tilted and it appears he is attacking the players right shoulder.

    Huh?

    No. the very 1st point of impact is the crown of his helmet contacting the facemask of the defender. Stop the video at 0:31 and tell that that isnt the case.


    I will say it again, lowering the crown of your helmet has always been illegal in football. It was just never enforced against offensive players.


    Furthermore, for those crying about Goodell or the owners implementing such silly rules, you need to do some research. much of the new rule changes came about from former players and their familiy members suing the league. This was a major point of discussion in the last CBA talks. Retired players argued the NFL has done nothing to make the league safer. So, now the league is responding.

    I have been critical of many of the rule changes in recent years as too game changing, particularly for defenses who simply play at too big of a disadvantage now.

    The fact is player safety is as much the offensive players responsibility as the defensive players. If a defensive player cannot lower the crown of his helmet for safety purposes, there is no reason a rb should be allowed to. People are making a mountain out of a molehill on this. It isnt a big deal.

  7. #247
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    Huh?

    No. the very 1st point of impact is the crown of his helmet contacting the facemask of the defender. Stop the video at 0:31 and tell that that isnt the case.


    I will say it again, lowering the crown of your helmet has always been illegal in football. It was just never enforced against offensive players.


    Furthermore, for those crying about Goodell or the owners implementing such silly rules, you need to do some research. much of the new rule changes came about from former players and their familiy members suing the league. This was a major point of discussion in the last CBA talks. Retired players argued the NFL has done nothing to make the league safer. So, now the league is responding.

    I have been critical of many of the rule changes in recent years as too game changing, particularly for defenses who simply play at too big of a disadvantage now.

    The fact is player safety is as much the offensive players responsibility as the defensive players. If a defensive player cannot lower the crown of his helmet for safety purposes, there is no reason a rb should be allowed to. People are making a mountain out of a molehill on this. It isnt a big deal.
    If this video is the best the NFL has then it is pretty weak. Trent was lowering his shoulders (and head) to get as much yardage as possible. The defender was lowering himself to take on the barreling TR. The defender could have stayed upright and been run over even more. I can't lay this one on Richardson and if you have to tell us to "stop the video at 0:31" you make the point for me perfectly. The game doesn't stop. It is fluid and dynamic and there is 1 inch between the helmet and shoulder pad and you've got 2 or more guys moving quickly and changing their levels independent of one another. The zebras have enough trouble getting holding penalties correct. We have too many lawyers in the NFL office, starting with the commish.
    No one remembers who came in second.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    Huh?

    No. the very 1st point of impact is the crown of his helmet contacting the facemask of the defender. Stop the video at 0:31 and tell that that isnt the case.


    I will say it again, lowering the crown of your helmet has always been illegal in football. It was just never enforced against offensive players.


    Furthermore, for those crying about Goodell or the owners implementing such silly rules, you need to do some research. much of the new rule changes came about from former players and their familiy members suing the league. This was a major point of discussion in the last CBA talks. Retired players argued the NFL has done nothing to make the league safer. So, now the league is responding.

    I have been critical of many of the rule changes in recent years as too game changing, particularly for defenses who simply play at too big of a disadvantage now.

    The fact is player safety is as much the offensive players responsibility as the defensive players. If a defensive player cannot lower the crown of his helmet for safety purposes, there is no reason a rb should be allowed to. People are making a mountain out of a molehill on this. It isnt a big deal.
    Finally a solitary voice of reason around here. He as certainly using the crown first.

    And Jomo, its one single play as an example that was the most recent. Who said anything about it being the best example the NFL has?

    The straw man arguments around here are beyond comical.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by jomo View Post
    If this video is the best the NFL has then it is pretty weak. Trent was lowering his shoulders (and head) to get as much yardage as possible. The defender was lowering himself to take on the barreling TR. The defender could have stayed upright and been run over even more. I can't lay this one on Richardson and if you have to tell us to "stop the video at 0:31" you make the point for me perfectly. The game doesn't stop. It is fluid and dynamic and there is 1 inch between the helmet and shoulder pad and you've got 2 or more guys moving quickly and changing their levels independent of one another. The zebras have enough trouble getting holding penalties correct. We have too many lawyers in the NFL office, starting with the commish.
    +1.
    Things happen so quickly thatt it's impossible to even determine intent. These guys make instantaneous instinctive decisions and are looking to take a man down, or plow the defender out of the way the best you can, in a flash. **** happens and helmets clash. It's all incidental to me, because it's hard to believe that specifically hurting a guy is intent. It's your intent to hit him as hard as you can, and to drive thru him... that's your job, and if you DON"T, then you're the one who will end up being hurt. It's a brutal game. The players know it and they say, "Bring it on."
    Like I've said before, these are our modern day gladiators.
    Now the freakin' lawyers are salivating at years of hearings, papers to write and present, juries to sway, and let's keep the players and owners at each other's throats.... and the lawyers will make their milllions.
    Sad

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by jomo View Post
    If this video is the best the NFL has then it is pretty weak. Trent was lowering his shoulders (and head) to get as much yardage as possible. The defender was lowering himself to take on the barreling TR. The defender could have stayed upright and been run over even more. I can't lay this one on Richardson and if you have to tell us to "stop the video at 0:31" you make the point for me perfectly. The game doesn't stop. It is fluid and dynamic and there is 1 inch between the helmet and shoulder pad and you've got 2 or more guys moving quickly and changing their levels independent of one another. The zebras have enough trouble getting holding penalties correct. We have too many lawyers in the NFL office, starting with the commish.
    "lowering" yourself isnt illegal. Where are people getting this? You can still do that, you just have to keep your facemask up and looking where you are going.

    I will say it again, THIS RULE HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN PLACE.


    The rule simply prohibits players from lowering the crown of their helmet, something that has ALWAYS been illegal for defenders and is now illegal for offensive players too. BTW, the original implementation of this rule was decades before Goodell ever took the commish job.

    I agree with the "dynamic" game argument for a lot of recent rule implementations, most notably the helmet to helmet rule. But, this is a simple rule. If you lower the crown of your helmet as a RB ( ei: look a he ground as you run into a defender) it is a penalty just like it would be for a defender to do that to you..

    I have never seen a single thread complaining about the decades old spearing rule that has existed in the NFL. But now that RBs cant spear anymore the complaints are filling the forums.

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