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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by dezzzR View Post
    Its going to happen regardless of where the rb is if leading with his head and shoulders is his style/technique. Iv seen plenty of rbs lead with their head outside the tackle box
    Now you'll see them get flagged.

  2. #222
    This new rule is total BS I agree completly. However, its still allowed inside the tackle box, which is where you see RBs lowering there heads anyway. In open field, they just cant bullrush anymore. I think its a crock but it is what it is, and hopefully the backs can adjust, as the defenses have this last year. I really dont think this is going to change much. Plus if the penalty is called on a RB, the play is not taken away, just 15 yards will be taken off the end of the run, which I think was an important addition to the rule.

  3. #223
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimonami View Post
    You never know if the refs will have trouble with it until we see some penalties. I don't think this goes away anytime soon, mostly because of the concussion suits. NFL is almost forced to establish that it takes the problem seriously and don't want concussions.
    You're right about J.Brown... a tough sob. He had such strong legs and hips that he just shred a lot of would be tacklers... left them eating dirt. But there also wasn't a lot of kamikaze tacklers back then. IT was a different game, and the players weren't chiselled rock then, either. Few giuys worked in the offseason, and took weights seriously. Many had to work A second job from December to June. Preseason was to get in shape. Today if you don't come to camp in shape, your at a big disadvantage. You see the old player pics and you don't see the ripped physiques that you see today..
    I agree with most of what you say here. (Although Brown was ripped, even by today's standards!)

    But I was responding to the point you and YA were making about the toughness of players from that era and another poster or two who referenced how runners from back in the day "trucked" defenders. I refer to Brown as an example of a RB from that era who "trucked" defenders without feeling the need to spear them in the process. It can be--and has been--done.

    As to the in-the-grasp rule again, I remember Lambert reacting quite a bit like current RBs are now reacting to this new rule by saying "next, we'll have QBs wearing skirts!" I'm sure his own QB, Bradshaw, appreciated that comment, HA!

    Anyway, Lambert's reaction sounds a heck of a lot like today's reactions to the RB helmet rule. Yet here we are 30-some years later, making the same comments about how this softening the rules will make a tough sport soft.

    The largest concern, to me, is what effect this rule may have on officiating and the subsequent pace of the game. Which is what seems to concern YA and perhaps yourself an others on this board. Well, we won't know that until a few weeks into the 2013 season. Between now and then the officials will have a lot of time to review film of all the various potential RB situations and to try to narrow down the actual violations so that they won't be hesitating--or more importantly, overreacting--on every running play beyond 3 yards of the los. (This rule applies to any runner beyond the 3 yards, so WRs, TEs will also be subject to the rule in that situation).

    Additionally, teams have the entire off season OTAs, mini camps, and pre season camp and games to coach everyone on how to run the ball beyond the los without spearing a defender. Just like they've been doing in recent off seasons with defenders.

    We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out before we can truly make judgments about how this will "ruin" the game.

    But the immediate player and fan reaction so far, beyond a legitimate concern for placing another judgement burden upon the officials, is a bit hysterical and misplaced, in my opinion.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by gmen46 View Post
    I agree with most of what you say here. (Although Brown was ripped, even by today's standards!)

    But I was responding to the point you and YA were making about the toughness of players from that era and another poster or two who referenced how runners from back in the day "trucked" defenders. I refer to Brown as an example of a RB from that era who "trucked" defenders without feeling the need to spear them in the process. It can be--and has been--done.

    As to the in-the-grasp rule again, I remember Lambert reacting quite a bit like current RBs are now reacting to this new rule by saying "next, we'll have QBs wearing skirts!" I'm sure his own QB, Bradshaw, appreciated that comment, HA!

    Anyway, Lambert's reaction sounds a heck of a lot like today's reactions to the RB helmet rule. Yet here we are 30-some years later, making the same comments about how this softening the rules will make a tough sport soft.

    The largest concern, to me, is what effect this rule may have on officiating and the subsequent pace of the game. Which is what seems to concern YA and perhaps yourself an others on this board. Well, we won't know that until a few weeks into the 2013 season. Between now and then the officials will have a lot of time to review film of all the various potential RB situations and to try to narrow down the actual violations so that they won't be hesitating--or more importantly, overreacting--on every running play beyond 3 yards of the los. (This rule applies to any runner beyond the 3 yards, so WRs, TEs will also be subject to the rule in that situation).

    Additionally, teams have the entire off season OTAs, mini camps, and pre season camp and games to coach everyone on how to run the ball beyond the los without spearing a defender. Just like they've been doing in recent off seasons with defenders.

    We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out before we can truly make judgments about how this will "ruin" the game.

    But the immediate player and fan reaction so far, beyond a legitimate concern for placing another judgement burden upon the officials, is a bit hysterical and misplaced, in my opinion.
    Exactly right... hysterical and misplaced over-reaction... just like the immediate reaction to Sandy Hook and taking guns out of the hands of all citizens.
    Yes, we have to see what eventuates... and, your point about them having all preseason/camp time to work on this is also relevent. Plus, refs work with the teams... not that refs really know how they'll react to bang-bang incidents.
    You see guys launching themselves at a ball carriers mid section and in that split second the ball carrier moves his body/head in such a way that they hit helmet to helmet. FLAG. It was not the defenders aim to hit the man's helmet, but that's what happened, and he gets penalized.
    I think intent means everything... but, you can't recognize intent in that split second.
    Just like in the vid in this thread where the Eagle defender gets his helmet knocked off. The RB just intended to put his head in the defender's chest... but ended up hitting his face guard and knocking the helmet off. I think in the future that same play draws a flag, and if the helmet is not knocked off, the refs won't throw a flag. In both of those cases the RB's intent was the same... but one will get a flag and the other won't.
    Like you say... there is time for the refs and the players to sort things out. But, what happens in real life often depends upon a split second feel by a ref for what he thinks he just saw. Since it's not reviewable we'll see all sorts of moaning and groaning that it should, or should not have been called. Being a ref gets harder and harder.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by StrahanSoup92 View Post
    This new rule is total BS I agree completly. However, its still allowed inside the tackle box, which is where you see RBs lowering there heads anyway. In open field, they just cant bullrush anymore. I think its a crock but it is what it is, and hopefully the backs can adjust, as the defenses have this last year. I really dont think this is going to change much. Plus if the penalty is called on a RB, the play is not taken away, just 15 yards will be taken off the end of the run, which I think was an important addition to the rule.
    Good to see you, Stray>
    I didn't get that part until now... taking 15 yds off of the play result. Good, I like that.
    But, what if it results in a TD? Put the ball out on the 15?

  6. #226
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    I think ultimately this new rule will be much ado about nothing.
    They just don't want a player using their heads overtly as a battering ram. From what I understand it has to be very blatant.
    Last edited by Morehead State; 03-21-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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  7. #227
    All-Pro GameTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I think ultimately this new rule with me much ado about nothing.
    They just don't want a player using their heads overtly as a battering ram. From what I understand it has to be very blatant.
    agreed.....some fans are flipping out about this before they even read or hear what the rule is all about.
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  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I think ultimately this new rule will be much ado about nothing.
    They just don't want a player using their heads overtly as a battering ram. From what I understand it has to be very blatant.
    I think you're right.
    We'll inevitably have some questionable flags. Two guys coming at each other and they both lower their heads, and they have a brutal helmet to helmet contact. Who gets flagged? The one who wins the battle and blows the other man backwards?
    I'm glad I'm not a ref... tough job, and thankless

  9. #229
    Moderator YATittle1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmen46 View Post
    I agree with most of what you say here. (Although Brown was ripped, even by today's standards!)

    But I was responding to the point you and YA were making about the toughness of players from that era and another poster or two who referenced how runners from back in the day "trucked" defenders. I refer to Brown as an example of a RB from that era who "trucked" defenders without feeling the need to spear them in the process. It can be--and has been--done.

    As to the in-the-grasp rule again, I remember Lambert reacting quite a bit like current RBs are now reacting to this new rule by saying "next, we'll have QBs wearing skirts!" I'm sure his own QB, Bradshaw, appreciated that comment, HA!

    Anyway, Lambert's reaction sounds a heck of a lot like today's reactions to the RB helmet rule. Yet here we are 30-some years later, making the same comments about how this softening the rules will make a tough sport soft.

    The largest concern, to me, is what effect this rule may have on officiating and the subsequent pace of the game. Which is what seems to concern YA and perhaps yourself an others on this board. Well, we won't know that until a few weeks into the 2013 season. Between now and then the officials will have a lot of time to review film of all the various potential RB situations and to try to narrow down the actual violations so that they won't be hesitating--or more importantly, overreacting--on every running play beyond 3 yards of the los. (This rule applies to any runner beyond the 3 yards, so WRs, TEs will also be subject to the rule in that situation).

    Additionally, teams have the entire off season OTAs, mini camps, and pre season camp and games to coach everyone on how to run the ball beyond the los without spearing a defender. Just like they've been doing in recent off seasons with defenders.

    We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out before we can truly make judgments about how this will "ruin" the game.

    But the immediate player and fan reaction so far, beyond a legitimate concern for placing another judgement burden upon the officials, is a bit hysterical and misplaced, in my opinion.
    the way it will be officiated definitely concerns me the most

    and as for the "trucking" using the crown....it's not always intentional

    a RB lowers his head to "get small" and protect the ball as he has been coached forever and gain a yard and unintentionally "spears" a defender ....out comes the laundry

    unfair

    and I dont want to see some poster coming at me about the "correct" way to do things and how it is taught in youth leagues.....becuase guys have been dropping their heads to gain yards and go through defenders since before there were helmets in the game ....and have been praised for it for decades
    Last edited by YATittle1962; 03-21-2013 at 02:38 PM.

  10. #230
    they reviewed all 32 teams seasons, all the games week to week, and found the penalty would be warranted ELEVEN times people...this is merely a ploy by the owners to try and come off as concern over player health when really its concern over profit health. it would be called 1 every 3 games...its not a big deal at least not nearly as big a deal as people are making it. do people understand that this rule doesnt take effect inbetween the tackles? that it only takes effect outside the tackles, basically the hash marks to the sideline...and a ball carrier in that area is usually almost always in space. u rarely even see ball carriers try to seek out a defender and use his head as a weapon anymore bc its a waste of an opportunity in space that could be turned into a TD...the only times a ball carrier is leading with the crown out in that space is blatantly intentional, ala Jacobs would know he wasnt out running the d so he would pick a DB and look to truck him...thats fine, as long as jacobs doesnt lunge with the crown of his helmet.

    IF a ball carrier initiates contact with the crown but u could tell hes making a football move to get low and protect himself on the way to being tackles, its not gonna be called and will look nothing like what the refs will look for in flagging the penalty...

    ELEVEN times...1x in 3 games...not a big deal and really isnt going to need players to change/adapt all that much...

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