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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    I don't think it's physically possible for his eyes to remain parallel the field when his body is in that position, and according to you and BS, lowering your body is not illegal.

    Now, if the defender was extremely low on that play, it's very possible the initial contact would have come from his far-head area, and that is a legal play according to what I've read.
    You can go low and keep your head up. I see it everyday from youth football kids. If you are so low you can't keep your head from looking straight down then you're curving and bending your back, not your knees and hips. Which is taught since peewee football.

    Its obvious TR was using his helmet as a weapon. How on earth can that be disputed?

    Years ago defenders had to adjust and all this rule is doing is making offensive players be just as capable of getting a flag for helmet to helmet. Players WILL adjust. Defensive players have had to change the way they play the last few years. God forbid we make offensive players responsible as well.

  2. #262
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGiantDynasty View Post
    You can go low and keep your head up. I see it everyday from youth football kids. If you are so low you can't keep your head from looking straight down then you're curving and bending your back, not your knees and hips. Which is taught since peewee football.

    Its obvious TR was using his helmet as a weapon. How on earth can that be disputed?

    Years ago defenders had to adjust and all this rule is doing is making offensive players be just as capable of getting a flag for helmet to helmet. Players WILL adjust. Defensive players have had to change the way they play the last few years. God forbid we make offensive players responsible as well.
    Could you post a single picture of a RB going low while keeping his face forward?
    http://boards.giants.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=25347&dateline=138526  4905 Get well, get back #80

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Could you post a single picture of a RB going low while keeping his face forward?
    Sorry, but the onus is on you to prove its impossible. I have the NFL on my side saying its very much possible. You dont.

    I will concede that its not an easy thing to find. But honestly, the rule is just now being enforced. There was no reason for RB's to focus on that until now.

    The same thing was said years ago about defensive players keeping their heads up as well. Did defenders not learn to adapt? Now, you can find pictures of defenders getting low while keeping their head up, while years ago it was a much harder picture to find.

    Also, there is a difference between face being completely forward and looking straight down at the ground like TR. You are ALLOWED to hit with the hairline of the helmet which would put your face at a 45 degree angle which is very much easier to find a picture of.

  4. #264
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGiantDynasty View Post
    Sorry, but the onus is on you to prove its impossible. I have the NFL on my side saying its very much possible. You dont.

    I will concede that its not an easy thing to find. But honestly, the rule is just now being enforced. There was no reason for RB's to focus on that until now.

    The same thing was said years ago about defensive players keeping their heads up as well. Did defenders not learn to adapt? Now, you can find pictures of defenders getting low while keeping their head up, while years ago it was a much harder picture to find.

    Also, there is a difference between face being completely forward and looking straight down at the ground like TR. You are ALLOWED to hit with the hairline of the helmet which would put your face at a 45 degree angle which is very much easier to find a picture of.
    The point that is being made is two-fold - 1. the players have been taught to play this ways for years. 2. the refs will **** up the game because of this new rule.
    http://boards.giants.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=25347&dateline=138526  4905 Get well, get back #80

  5. #265
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    bending over and trying to run with your head up or getting low ..i don't its possible in fact probably looks funny if its not setting yourself up to get your head taken off......What do they want the running backs to surrender to the first would be tackler...more and more the game is being put in the hands of the refs and their interpretation of the rules....this rule will add to the bad calls...that being said I don't like seeing guys getting seriously hurt especially from a malicious hit where a guy is trying to hurt someone ...Idk

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Here it is at :31. While he's lowered his body, his head remains up relative to his spine. Looks to me as if the defender would have done the same exact thing had he had time to set up.


    What on earth are you talking about? I responded to the fact that you said and I quote

    " he was attacking the defenders right shoulder"

    Do I really need to remind you of what was said?

    The video and the picture above shows the CLEAR point of impact was the defenders face mask.

    Your own video and the picture above shows that you are either blind or now trying to change the subject.

    What the hell does spine angle or anything have to do with what I said?Defensive players are taught to SEE WHAT THEY TACKLE. If they lower the crown of their helmet, not only can they not see what they tackole but they can be called for a Spearing penalty(15 yards). Go ask James Harrison who has been called multiple times for this penalty. Or you can look the rule up yourself. Spearing has been illegal in the NFL for decades.

    So I ask again, why should it be different for offensive players? I have not heard 1 single person answer this question? Why should an offensive player be allowed to turn his helmet into a weapon when a defensive player cannot?

    Im holding my breath for a good answer.

    The NFL has had numberous dumb rules implemented in the pretense of player safety. This however, is not 1 of them.

    .
    Last edited by BlueSanta; 03-23-2013 at 12:43 AM.

  7. #267
    wow. a lot of ppl have no understanding of the ACTUAL rule. the fact football isnt stopped so calls can be made is irrelevant. will a ref blow a call with this penalty? 100% definite, just like they blow PI, offsides, etc etc calls all the time.

    the parameters for the rule are clear and simple, and make sense. thats why i believe people arent understanding it. Here goes 1 last time. Like intentional grounding, there is a specific area of the field refs will look for this penalty, OUTSIDE the tackle to tackle box. that means, INSIDE the tackles, no rule change. and thats from 3yds of the LOS to the end/goal line.
    When a ball carrier is OUTSIDE the tackle box, hes almost always in space. I dont even know if the T.Richardson hit on Coleman would be called bc he's right at the tackle to tackle box. the ball carrier has to CLEARLY be outside it. then, he has to CLEARLY be trying to use his crown as a weapon. Meaning, the ball carriers can still lower the shoulder pads, and get low to brace for contact. Refs wont even be looking to call it there. What they will be looking for is a ball carrier outside the tackle box singling a defender out, and clearly trying to use his head as a weapon w/o trying to make any type of football move.

    ball carriers arent going to have to keep their eyes/facemask up while their shoulders lower, please, that'd be asking for decapitations at the NFL level, although, at the youth levels, emphasis is placed on keeping the chin away from the chest. when the chin touches the chest, ur going to end up leading with the crown.


    this isnt going to be difficult to officiate at all really imo. theres a certain defined area where they can even flag it, like intentional grounding. and, guys like BJ who KNOW they arent gonna outrun the D for a TD when he is out on the perimeter, are gonna be watched bc those are the instances where the ball carrier decided to try and attack the defender bc its the next best thing after a TD/YAC...

  8. #268
    and its clear as day the difference between a player trying to use the crown of the helmet as a weapon and a player trying to get low and brace for impact, at least for me...

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Here it is at :31. While he's lowered his body, his head remains up relative to his spine. Looks to me as if the defender would have done the same exact thing had he had time to set up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Could you post a single picture of a RB going low while keeping his face forward?
    Easy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVFZYYzHPU

    Notice the only time you see his facemask looking to the ground is when a defender hits him in the gut. Nobody in the history of the NFL ran lower than he did and look at that, his face was always up.

  10. #270
    All-Pro Drez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    The point that is being made is two-fold - 1. the players have been taught to play this ways for years. 2. the refs will **** up the game because of this new rule.
    Players are taught to always see what they hit. In fact, they are told never to lower their head completely.

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