+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 54

Thread: If Barkevious Mingo was there at 19 would you take him?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Well his value is as a pass rusher. And he isn't a DE. So 3-4 OLB is where they would list him.

    But it's similar to Von Miller. Went #2 overall to a 4-3 team. But they utilize him as a pass rusher more than anything.

    Have to do the same type of thing with Mingo to get the most out of him
    But that is misleading. Von Millier showed at the combine and all offseason that he could play in space and has incredibly flexible hips. That is why he began to be considered as a 43 SLB. In fact, Mayock said Von Miller was the #1 rated OLB for either 43 or 34. The same cannot be said for mingo, at least not based on what we have seen out of him. Mingo could end up being the same thing, but it would be a bigger risk since. Again, higher risk = less value.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    But again, you are talking about taking a guy who plays 1 position and taking risk that he will convert to another. That is a risk and risk lowers value, which is exactly why he is worth less to a 43 team than he is to a 34 , where you can clearly see he has the skillset to play 34 OLB.

    I think it is fitting you bring up Kiwi because he is an example that kinda backfires for you. He was benched at SLB last year because he hasnt exactly thrived at the postion when it comes to playing in space and moving away from the line of scrimmage. There is a real risk of that happening to Mingo too. Again, risk lowers his value.

    It isnt impossible and the guy is a freak of an athlete for sure. But, in my opinion, he has way more value to a 34 team.

    Think about it this way. He is the 2nd rated 34 olb on most scout boards. Where would you rate him as a 43 OLB? Maybe 4th or 5th at best? So not only is he more valuable as a 34 olb but 34 olbs tend to get drafted sooner than equal ly ranked 43 SLBs.
    let me ask u, have u seen mingo play...at all??

    doesnt seem like it to me bc he was basically used as a 4-3 DE at LSU. He was asked to be the contain/set the edge/eat up the OT guy to help free up other players. as documented by some of our more savvy ncaa posters here, LSU doesnt exactly utilize their players strengths.

    watch him play the read option and then tell me he cant play both DE and SLB...only concern is the strength, which actually hurts him more in a 3-4 where he'll be asked to take on OL 1v1 as a focal point to their pass rush and prob end up double teamed where as here we can rush him outside JPPs outside shoulder upfield, or use him like we used Osi and try to get him a free release upfield...

    then u factor in he's basically as athletic as Ogeltree and u can understand why coaches salivate over him bc u can teach him to cover bc he actually moves well in space...

    he'd be a situational pass rusher and situational LB the first yr or 2 id suppose before reaching most of his potential at whatever position we see fit...guy could absolutely make an immediate impact as a pass rusher (prob best first step of any DE/OLB) and we need that so, aside from Warmack/Cooper/Johnson, Mingo would be perfect here.

  3. #43
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    38,650
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    But that is misleading. Von Millier showed at the combine and all offseason that he could play in space and has incredibly flexible hips. That is why he began to be considered as a 43 SLB. In fact, Mayock said Von Miller was the #1 rated OLB for either 43 or 34. The same cannot be said for mingo, at least not based on what we have seen out of him. Mingo could end up being the same thing, but it would be a bigger risk since. Again, higher risk = less value.
    But Miller would never have similar value to a 4-3 team as a 3-4 team UNLESS they used him primarily as a pass rusher. Thats my point.

    No 4-3 team would take him #2 overall then ask him to play in space every play, theres no value in that at all.


    If he isnt strong enough to be a 3-4 base OLB which IMO, he might not be, (not as if a 3-4 OLB doesnt have to take on OTs on run downs, its very similar to a 4-3 weakside end) then how does a 3-4 team get him on the field on base downs? ILB? Very unlikely.

    But in a 4-3, he could be a SAM on run downs, which means he could fit into both the base and situational package for a 4-3 team, while probably only being a situational guy for a 3-4 team.

    On the other hand, maybe some 3-4 teams think he can get stronger quickly or that he is already strong enough to be a base player. I dont see it that way, but those are the options there.

    So its entirely possible that Mingo is in fact more valuable to a 4-3 team than a 3-4 team.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    But Miller would never have similar value to a 4-3 team as a 3-4 team UNLESS they used him primarily as a pass rusher. Thats my point.

    No 4-3 team would take him #2 overall then ask him to play in space every play, theres no value in that at all.


    If he isnt strong enough to be a 3-4 base OLB which IMO, he might not be, (not as if a 3-4 OLB doesnt have to take on OTs on run downs, its very similar to a 4-3 weakside end) then how does a 3-4 team get him on the field on base downs? ILB? Very unlikely.

    But in a 4-3, he could be a SAM on run downs, which means he could fit into both the base and situational package for a 4-3 team, while probably only being a situational guy for a 3-4 team.

    On the other hand, maybe some 3-4 teams think he can get stronger quickly or that he is already strong enough to be a base player. I dont see it that way, but those are the options there.

    So its entirely possible that Mingo is in fact more valuable to a 4-3 team than a 3-4 team.
    Ok I am going to ask you straight up. Right now, as he is as a prospect do you think he is more valuable as a 43 SLB or a 34 OLB?

    You are talking a lot of guesswork above when you talk about what he "could do" or "might not be able to do" and even a few "maybe" in there. He CAN passrush and beat ppl on the edge with speed, we know that. Everything else is guesswork and that lowers value. So do you draft a guy on what he can do? or what he could possibly maybe probably do? IN the 1st round, I look for guys who can do. Maybe it is just me.

    Hence why I feel he has the most value as a 34 OLB. That doesnt mean he wont get drafted as something else, I just am going with probability.
    Last edited by BlueSanta; 03-29-2013 at 07:47 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    let me ask u, have u seen mingo play...at all??

    doesnt seem like it to me bc he was basically used as a 4-3 DE at LSU. He was asked to be the contain/set the edge/eat up the OT guy to help free up other players. as documented by some of our more savvy ncaa posters here, LSU doesnt exactly utilize their players strengths.

    watch him play the read option and then tell me he cant play both DE and SLB...only concern is the strength, which actually hurts him more in a 3-4 where he'll be asked to take on OL 1v1 as a focal point to their pass rush and prob end up double teamed where as here we can rush him outside JPPs outside shoulder upfield, or use him like we used Osi and try to get him a free release upfield...

    then u factor in he's basically as athletic as Ogeltree and u can understand why coaches salivate over him bc u can teach him to cover bc he actually moves well in space...

    he'd be a situational pass rusher and situational LB the first yr or 2 id suppose before reaching most of his potential at whatever position we see fit...guy could absolutely make an immediate impact as a pass rusher (prob best first step of any DE/OLB) and we need that so, aside from Warmack/Cooper/Johnson, Mingo would be perfect here.
    yes I have seen him play. Do you think I am saying he is a bad player? Have you read what I said? Because you seem to be arguing like I said he is bad or cant be a SLB. I never said that. I agree with Slip, Mingo could possibly maybe play SLB. But I know for a fact he can speedrush off the edge. In the 1st round I draft certainties, not maybes. Or at least as close as i to certainty.

    Or are you trying to argue that he can be a 43 DE? If that is the argument you are making , you arent just argueing with me you are arguing with almost every scouting service around, including Mike Mayock.

    I love the kid as a player, but he is not strong. There is a reason he has refused to do the bench press this entire offseason.

    He is lightning off the edge, and most tackles are going to have a hell of a time with his speedrush . But he isnt stout at the point of attack either. He isnt terrible, but he isnt stout enough to be a 43 DE in the NFL. Teams will run at him and his 240lbs all day. If someone drafts him to be a 43 de, he will be a situational player(passing downs) until he can gain enough strength to play the position. Maybe thats what we will do, It isnt beyond impossible, but I dunno, I dont find it probable.
    Last edited by BlueSanta; 03-29-2013 at 07:59 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Well, you shouldn't really expect much out of him when he is asked to contain first and pass rush second as a LDE. The fact he recognizes the concept of containment is already a huge plus over the recently departed Osi and he just has that rare first step you can't pass on if he falls to the Giants. LSU is notorious for having athletic specimens on their team that manage to underachieve. I'm not sure if their is an attitude issue in the locker room or if it's just the coaching staff using these kids in the wrong positions. I mean do you think using a 240lb player exclusively at LDE is a good idea? I just know that Michael Brockers was an underachiever last year for the Tigers and then he became a young star at the Rams in his rookie year. Something tells me that LSU is horrible using their defensive players and that a good NFL coaching staff would make Mingo work.
    U cant look at Mingos tape as it is because I feel he was grossly misused. U dont have a 240lb guy play LDE in the SEC. He played a lot of 4 and 5 tech. U have take his athletic ability u see in flashes and project it. I dont get why people dont think he can play in space in a 4-3 defense. The guy is plenty athletic , fast and fluid. He is also the best read option defender in CFB

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    Ok I am going to ask you straight up. Right now, as he is as a prospect do you think he is more valuable as a 43 SLB or a 34 OLB? You are talking a lot of guesswork above when you talk about what he "could do" or "might not be able to do" and even a few "maybe" in there. He CAN passrush and beat ppl on the edge with speed, we know that. Everything else is guesswork and that lowers value. So do you draft a guy on what he can do? or what he could possibly maybe probably do? IN the 1st round, I look for guys who can do. Maybe it is just me. Hence why I feel he has the most value as a 34 OLB. That doesnt mean he wont get drafted as something else, I just am going with probability.
    Why's it so important to you to pin him as only a 34 or 43 OLB or DE? Everything doesn't have to be black and white. Mingo is a guy who will play multiple positions in any defense. He will primarily be used as an edge rusher on passing downs like you acknowledge and has plenty of athleticism and mobility in the hips to play in space as needed. The majority of the time he will be getting after QBs. As Redeye said above, he will help us tremendously with the read option as well.
    Last edited by DarceChoke; 03-29-2013 at 08:55 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by DarceChoke View Post
    Why's it so important to you to pin him as only a 34 or 43 OLB or DE? Everything doesn't have to be black and white. Mingo is a guy who will play multiple positions in any defense. He will primarily be used as an edge rusher on passing downs like you acknowledge and has plenty of athleticism and mobility in the hips to play in space as needed. The majority of the time he will be getting after QBs. As Redeye said above, he will help us tremendously with the read option as well.
    Where did I say it is black and white? In fact I even said in the quote you cited that I am going with probability. Do you understand what that means? That is the OPPOSITE of black and white.

    Once again, he is the 2nd rated 34 OLb in the draft? There is 1 guy rated higher then him at that position. This is according to most scouts. He projects best to that position.



    Therefor, he is more likely to go to 1 of the 34 teams who pick ahead of us Off the top of my head that includes: The Saints, Chargers, Steelers, Jets, Dolphns, Browns, Eagles, and Cardinals. Many of thee teams have a huge passrushing need too.

    Now do I think he can play SLB? yes it is possible and even likely. We have seen him display athleticism and speed enough to play LB in a 43. But we have NOT seen him actually do it. He was not tested at the position at the combine or anywhere(or I didnt see it and I watched alot). This does not mean it isnt possible. Now people say "well he is good vs the read option, and that is true. But that helps his 34 OLB stock just as much as his 43 SLB stock, even moreso in fact because most here agree he isnt as likely to end up as a 43 DE

    So when you ask me where I think he will end up in the NFL, it is at the 34 passrushing LB spot. He has all the skills visible on tape to perform the duties required for this position.

    It doesnt mean it is "black and white" or 100%, it is just PROBABLE in my opinion, which is shared by most scouts.

  9. #49
    Seems like most are of the opinion we could do better than Mingo. He is a questionable fit for us at best in my opinion. There were games last season I watched him in and I wondered if he was even playing. He was on the field but he wasn't productive. We gotta be able to come up with a more sure fire selection in the first.

  10. #50
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    38,650
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    Ok I am going to ask you straight up. Right now, as he is as a prospect do you think he is more valuable as a 43 SLB or a 34 OLB?

    You are talking a lot of guesswork above when you talk about what he "could do" or "might not be able to do" and even a few "maybe" in there. He CAN passrush and beat ppl on the edge with speed, we know that. Everything else is guesswork and that lowers value. So do you draft a guy on what he can do? or what he could possibly maybe probably do? IN the 1st round, I look for guys who can do. Maybe it is just me.

    Hence why I feel he has the most value as a 34 OLB. That doesnt mean he wont get drafted as something else, I just am going with probability.
    That's exactly my point. His value right now is of a situational pass rusher. Saying he had more value as a 3-4 OLB would only be true if he was in fact a base OLb in a 3-4. Which he may not be. That's every bit the projection that a 4-3 Sam is.

    Right now I would guess his value is about the same for both teams

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts