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  1. #601
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    well, no. techically u did say the qb shouldnt get attributed anything in regards to YAC
    Well since pivotal and slim amount can't go hand in hand, then no..the QB shouldn't get attributed.

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  2. #602
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    I've showed you different examples of why I think the QB plays NO affect in YAC. I think it's up to the receiver to make those things happen.

    You and others have presented your case and backed it up, I just see it differently than you guys. I think it's up to the receiver to decide whether to go down (Cruz vs. Arizona), accelerate, etc. That's just how I see it. Broken and missed tackles especially are on the receiver. This is not just a Cruz thing either, it's with any receiver.

    Those are my claims that are articulated. And I did not condemn your logic haha..I actually went along with it..which is why I think now the QB has no affect.
    You've shown me examples that I specifically made exceptions to in my first posts on this matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmen0820 View Post
    Because your concept of YAC are heroic individual efforts
    The 99 yard TD, the Seattle play, the Eagles collision play -- THAT'S heroic individual effort. You disagreed despite the exception clause in my argument.

    Explain to me how throwing the ball in a spot where Cruz has to dive doesn't affect -- in any way, since that's your new stance -- the YAC.

    And again, think abstractly. There are other plays than 99 yard TDs, or freak tipped passes. Common slants, digs, out routes, post routes, ball position is pivotal before the receiver even gets a chance to touch the ball and decide where to go. What do you disagree with? Be specific.

  3. #603
    i think theres just a simple misunderstanding in terms of identifying which YAC we are talking about. I think Rudy is focusing more on the open field, out in space YAC more along the lines of when a RB is out in space. In that regard, that players individual skill and talent completely make up for the YAC (outside the relevancy of blocking and such).
    whereas, we are looking at the YAC as a whole and not seperating the two types of YAC i guess bc Cruz isn't getting into the open field to where he can utilize his skills unless the ball is thrown in a manner that presents that opportunity (99% of the time outside the seattle type tds. even the 99 yd td, the throw was pivotal in putting cruz in a position to slip those 2 first would be tackles).

    A player absolutely has his own part he is responsible for as a wr in YAC, its his vision and elusiveness. but likewise, the qb also his own responsible part in placing the ball in a way that gives the wr the opportunity to gain those YAC...I guess thats why we don't understand how u can make such a blanket statement as to the qb having no effect whatsoever...if that were the case, wr's would be paid more than qbs really...as their success would be independent from the qbs really. if the qbs pass doesnt effect whether the wr breaks 1 for a td or not, the premium on wrs went sky high.

  4. #604
    We really should have just signed dwayne bowe. Maybe he would have taken less to play for the giants!!

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by gmen0820 View Post
    You've shown me examples that I specifically made exceptions to in my first posts on this matter.



    The 99 yard TD, the Seattle play, the Eagles collision play -- THAT'S heroic individual effort. You disagreed despite the exception clause in my argument.

    Explain to me how throwing the ball in a spot where Cruz has to dive doesn't affect -- in any way, since that's your new stance -- the YAC.

    And again, think abstractly. There are other plays than 99 yard TDs, or freak tipped passes. Common slants, digs, out routes, post routes, ball position is pivotal before the receiver even gets a chance to touch the ball and decide where to go. What do you disagree with? Be specific.
    really, aside from the seattle example, they are poor choices. the 99 yd td play and the eagles play, the throw was absolutely paramount to giving cruz the possibility of getting into the open field to where he could use his individual skills. the throw on the 99 yd was to the outside shoulder of cruz inbetween bracket coverage iirc. cromartie and wilson iirc both had cruz dead to rights really, he didnt make any move, he just caught and moved with the ball. when cruz got out to the sidelines, of course the rest is on him. but if that pass by eli forced cruz to jump for it, or reach inside for it, or reach low for it, he doesnt slip those tackles.

    and likewise, the eagles TD, cruz isnt even aware of the initial defenders tackle attempt imo. the throw threw cruz into the contact, which is something ive seen eli do with bradshaw a ton. i guess the players brace for impact when catching or something bc its something i have no doubt that eli is intentionally throwing that way. anyways, if eli throws that ball any differently, Cruz probably doesnt even break that tackle either...after that, yeah cruz did the rest himself but again, he doesnt get the opportunity if the pass is thrown differently.
    Last edited by giantsfan420; 04-07-2013 at 05:25 PM.

  6. #606
    I'm happy if eli gets the ball within the wingspan of the receiver. YAC is the receiver. Eli throws alot of jump balls

  7. #607
    All-Pro FBomb's Avatar
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    And now, in the interest of equal time, here is a message from the National Institute of Pancakes: It reads, and I quote, **** waffles.......G Carlin

  8. #608
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmen0820 View Post
    You've shown me examples that I specifically made exceptions to in my first posts on this matter.



    The 99 yard TD, the Seattle play, the Eagles collision play -- THAT'S heroic individual effort. You disagreed despite the exception clause in my argument.

    Explain to me how throwing the ball in a spot where Cruz has to dive doesn't affect -- in any way, since that's your new stance -- the YAC.

    And again, think abstractly. There are other plays than 99 yard TDs, or freak tipped passes. Common slants, digs, out routes, post routes, ball position is pivotal before the receiver even gets a chance to touch the ball and decide where to go. What do you disagree with? Be specific.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D4BQHBj534 Go to :44 of the video.

    That's what I'm talking about..look at him breaking tackles and spinning That is on Cruz.

    Also 2:02 of the video as well

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  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    Yes, I do not feel that YAC is attributed to the QB.
    There are passes the qb can throw like the slant that helps the receiver to run after the catch. you also have the screen pass as well. How about the deep slant or the post?

  10. #610
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D4BQHBj534 Go to :44 of the video.

    That's what I'm talking about..look at him breaking tackles and spinning That is on Cruz.
    What is it about "heroic effort, aside" does not register?

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