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  1. #31
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    If Randle/Murphy comes through at the 3WR spot this could be our best year yet. Eli, Cruz, and Nicks are givens. If healthy, I know what they will do- money in the bank, but it's that 3rd receiving option that makes us lethal on offense; and if we can run just average, we will be a force.
    I think Randle could have a huge year. That's why I'm not as obsessed with the Cruz situation as some here.
    But this is the season for the offense to shine. That's why I've been talking up dealing with the O line first this off season.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #32
    All-Pro B&RWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Your original point was that "Aikman had Irvin, Montana had Rice etc.....
    Then you said that great QB's "usually" have great WR's. Well Tom Brady is clearly an exception. Because he had Randy Moss for a tad over 2 seasons.
    And while he had the one spectacular season, if you look at his other full season with Randy Moss (2009) it was far less productive than any of the 3 seasons he's had since.
    Brady would be seem to be an exception but the caveat is that his best year by far was the one of the 2 years he had a great WR. So Brady doesn't contradict my point. As great as he has been his year with Moss was proof that he would have even more effective with better WRs.

    All of this supports my initial claim that that in most cases great QBs play with stellar receiving talent. My main point, if you can remember, was to refute the idea that a great way to see if a QB is great is by taking away his best/#1 WR.

    There are exceptions, you can argue Brady is one, what you can't dispute is the fact that Brady or any QB would be better with a great WR.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Brady would be seem to be an exception but the caveat is that his best year by far was the one of the 2 years he had a great WR. So Brady doesn't contradict my point. As great as he has been his year with Moss was proof that he would have even more effective with better WRs.

    All of this supports my initial claim that that in most cases great QBs play with stellar receiving talent. My main point, if you can remember, was to refute the idea that a great way to see if a QB is great is by taking away his best/#1 WR.

    There are exceptions, you can argue Brady is one, what you can't dispute is the fact that Brady or any QB would be better with a great WR.
    Its usually a combination of both. It also depends on the dynamics of the scheme and the quality of other players as well.
    Clearly if a QB has crap WR's (or vise versa like Arizona) the passing game will suffer.

    But the ultimate point is that Eli isn't carrying our WR's. Hakeem Nicks would be a great WR with most any QB. This notion that Victor Cruz would be lost without Eli is just Cultist nonsense.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #34
    All-Pro B&RWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I think Randle could have a huge year. That's why I'm not as obsessed with the Cruz situation as some here.
    But this is the season for the offense to shine. That's why I've been talking up dealing with the O line first this off season.
    Honestly, I think the Oline will struggle. The only thing new on the O-line is a rookie, if we draft one. He will have a learning curve as all rookies do, especially in pass protection. I'm hoping a healthy Snee will add some punch to our running game.

  5. #35
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Honestly, I think the Oline will struggle. The only thing new on the O-line is a rookie, if we draft one. He will have a learning curve as all rookies do, especially in pass protection. I'm hoping a healthy Snee will add some punch to our running game.
    If Fluker is our pick I think he might be a decent plug and play guy at RT. I really don't know what to expect with Brewer if he's the guy.
    I was big on signing a FA right tackle (a guy like Winston) to really solidify the O line. But that doesn't look like its going to happen.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Its usually a combination of both. It also depends on the dynamics of the scheme and the quality of other players as well.
    Clearly if a QB has crap WR's (or vise versa like Arizona) the passing game will suffer.

    But the ultimate point is that Eli isn't carrying our WR's. Hakeem Nicks would be a great WR with most any QB. This notion that Victor Cruz would be lost without Eli is just Cultist nonsense.
    I've always said Eli has never played with bad WR talent, in fact quite the opposite. Started with Toomer in his prime, Plax, and Shockey, then on to SS, Nicks, and now Cruz; no real greatness there, but definitely not awful.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    If Fluker is our pick I think he might be a decent plug and play guy at RT. I really don't know what to expect with Brewer if he's the guy.
    I was big on signing a FA right tackle (a guy like Winston) to really solidify the O line. But that doesn't look like its going to happen.
    Fluker is shooting up the boards like I don't know what. I think he may be gone by 19.

    Ah yes, I forgot about Brewer. He and Mosely are wild cards. They may surprise. Brewer could also help the running game if he's up to the task of pass protection.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    I've always said Eli has never played with bad WR talent, in fact quite the opposite. Started with Toomer in his prime, Plax, and Shockey, then on to SS, Nicks, and now Cruz; no real greatness there, but definitely not awful.
    A lot better than Bobby Johnson and Lionel Manuel.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Aikman had Irvin. Montana and Young had Rice, Marino had the Marks brothers, Peyton had Harrison and Wayne. Brady with Moss was incomparable to Brady without. Great QBs usually play with great WRs.
    Brady and Peyton have put up great numbers no matter who they played with. Montana did well with Dwight Clark before Rice was around and maybe you forgot about John Taylor who played across from Rice. I mean he was only an All-Decade receiver. Marino had the Marks brothers. Neither of who would have been as effective without the other. All of these guys had good numbers because their QB did not force the ball to just 1 guy!

    Anyway my point is all these other QB's spread the ball around. Stafford doesn't! He forces the ball to a receiver that may be better in the long run than all of those you mentioned! He's already broken or tied a number of NFL receiving records and he's ONLY 27!

  10. #40
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Aikman had Irvin. Montana and Young had Rice, Marino had the Marks brothers, Peyton had Harrison and Wayne. Brady with Moss was incomparable to Brady without. Great QBs usually play with great WRs.
    Maybe a small point here, but Montana won 2 of his 4 Super Bowls before Rice was drafted into the league.

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