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  1. #251
    All-Pro B&RWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repeatchamps View Post
    I just cannot agree. Perhaps San Diego the last couple years has fallen to a bit worse than the Giants but overall Rivers has had the better O-line. Eli's pass protection has never been great. It is misleading to see the low sack numbers. Eli has always had s ridiculously quick release even in his rookie year. I know what I've seen since 2006 (when both Rivers and Eli were starters). Rivers has had it better for more seasons than Eli. You want to give the nod to Rivers having it worse last year fine but it is by a small margin and no way was 2011 a good year for the Giants pass protection wasn't great for SD either so I consider it a wash. However other than 2008, Rivers had a better o-line in front of him in 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010. Also you can't discount run blocking as important to a QB's success. You run the ball better the better your QB will look and other than 2008 the Giants have not run blocked better than SD since Eli and Rivers have been at QB.
    Maybe I was wrong, but I felt like they did the job in pass protection. Besides SF nobody really got to Eli during the run at the end of the season.

  2. #252
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Cam, Wilson, Kap, and RG3 haven't been doing it long enough to get a vote over a QB that over 9 years has a higher QB rating than Eli and that is with his 67 fumbles.

    Romo is even less clutch than Rivers, but on paper and when you see him play he's better than Eli except when it counts the most. In quarters one through three Romo is, dare I say, elite.

    You can make a legitimate argument for Stafford and Ryan being better than Rivers.

    Vick...c'mon. Cutler gambles too much.

    I like what I see out of Dalton. Haven't watched him enough and compared him to Rivers.

    Rivers will have a good year this year with no real star at WR and an aging Gates. In terms of pure throwing ability he's better than Eli, fortunately for us it takes more than throwing ability to make a GREAT QB.
    First off, fumbles don't factor into QB rating.

    Second off, you can say what I want about the whole 9 years hes been in the league, but what have u done for me lately? Your lying to yourself if u say u wouldn't take Kapernick, Wilson, or RG3 over rivers going into this year. What rivers did 5 years ago really has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Saying you wouldn't take those guys over Rivers is the equivalent of saying you would t take AJ Green over Anquon Boldin or so etching like that.

    Cam is going into his 3rd year. Not only are his throwing numbers pretty comparable to Rivers but obviously his running game completely puts him over the top.

    You can't talk numbers to make ur point about Rivers, then back away from it when it comes to Romo. Romo ****s on rivers numbers.

    Regardless of if u seen Dalton, you shouldn't even be mentioning him because he was drafted same year as Cam.

    You obviously haven't watched Rivers the past few seasons. Chargers have blown and hes been ahead of that.
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  3. #253
    All-Pro B&RWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliscruzzz View Post
    If you came to the conclusion that the Giants o-line was an A+++ then the only number your looking at, is the times he got sacked, not the whole picture. If our o-line was so good why did we draft one in the first round this year??
    I thought the pass protection was good given how bad the run blocking was. I don't think it was a great line, but if you can't run block and your QB leads you to a SB victory don't you get some credit for doing a decent job pass blocking?

    We were probably closer to bad then good in 2011. Maybe A+++ is too much. I should say A for effort given how bad the run block.

  4. #254
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    You are probably right about Rivers but I have a feeling he's going to have a resurgence this season with a new coaching staff and system.
    That was a toxic situation in SD.
    I mean thats fine, I guess I could see him doing better but hes not one of the guys nipping on Eli's heel.

    And all these young QBs look just as good if not better than Rivers.
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  5. #255
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    No way. Tubby built that team to win with defense first then he kicked up the offense. For most of the time Tubby was there they were defense first. I do agree he's had some of the worst lines ever and until Marshall not much to throw to. He may have the best arm in the league, but he makes awful decisions. He's gotten better the past couple of years.
    Cutler should of been able to prosecute his lineman for accessory to assault. He got killed. No QB is going to look good. Well see more about cutler this year. Their line got better. Plus lets not forget Martz was there most of his time in Chicago.
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  6. #256
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    He's had two off years. Last year him and Eli had identical stats just about and last year was one of his 2 off years.
    You live and die by stats, except when they don't add into your argument.

    He had the best team in football many times and never took them anywhere. As a fantasy QB i agree,he was pretty good. As a football QB, na im good.
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  7. #257
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmen46 View Post
    This is a frequent--on this board--statement regurgitated every time the issue of Eli's clutch factor is raised, and it is irrelevant every time. And just plain ridiculous.

    Your statement can be raised about every QB comeback.

    Yet do you say the same thing about Montana and all his comebacks? About Peyton and Brady) comeback ability? About Elway and Marino when they had thrilling comeback games? About Unitas? All of these QBs (and a few others throughout history) have been, and continue to be, praised by anyone you can think of--players, ex players, coaches, pundits, fans, HOF writer-voters--for their extraordinary "comeback ability". Which of these QBs would you say had their comebacks in games that they were more than adequate in the first half?

    This ability is in fact highly regarded in the select few QBs who are good at it throughout their career. And Eli--only at mid career so far--is include in this select group. There's a reason for that.

    Because all players are human. Because football is a team sport and sometimes other components come up short for a while. Because most pro football games have an ebb and flow to them. Because pro football is not like college ball where superior teams routinely play drastically inferior teams to vastly lopsided scores and total number of points can impact post season positioning.

    And because of these facts of pro football life, it is impressive (and highly valued) when the QB can not only lead the team to overcome earlier deficiencies, but can do it repeatedly and can do it in big games as well.
    All the QB's you mentioned are all-time great QB's who played at a very high level for an extended period of time. We can't honestly say that about Eli which is why fansince69's point is valid.

  8. #258
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I have never heard a single Giants fan question as to whether or not Eli was a good player.

    ....anymore at least
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  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harooni View Post
    don't people question big ben also?? teams win SB's
    I gotta be honest, I don't hear people question Ben. Just his durability.
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  10. #260
    All-Pro Eliscruzzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    I thought the pass protection was good given how bad the run blocking was. I don't think it was a great line, but if you can't run block and your QB leads you to a SB victory don't you get some credit for doing a decent job pass blocking?

    We were probably closer to bad then good in 2011. Maybe A+++ is too much. I should say A for effort given how bad the run block.
    It's not even an A... more like D or D-. I saw a stat somewhere that Eli was hurried on his dropback second only to Aaron Rodgers. The only reason why he wasn't sacked as much is his ability to get rid of the ball. Now that works against him too. How many times have you seen Eli basically get sacked and still try to get rid of the ball and results in an int??

    Your point on Rivers is nonsense, sorry. I never thought Rivers was great at reading defenses like Eli does. He sucked last year cause he couldn't use his arm strength to throw up balls to Vincent Jackson. Rivers has always had elite wrs, and an elite TE. Now they are older and Rivers is who he is.

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