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  1. #61
    All-Pro GameTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosedrool View Post
    Nobody cares what your opinion is on Pugh, you were clearly wrong about him. Stop being so stubborn and quit while you are behind.
    he has 0 problem with Pugh. HIs issue is with JR and where Pugh was picked and why...
    "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
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  2. #62
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameTime View Post
    I understand it....but he is adiment that a RT is not or should never be a position that is taken as a first rounder.
    That's really not my position exactly.
    My view is that if you draft a RT in round 1, he has to be an exceptional talent. Same thing with guards. A guy like Womack (who I think was the best player in the draft) may not have played a premium position, but his talent was so off the charts he had to be taken where he was.
    Pugh is a nice player who doesn't play one of those positions, (at least he wasn't drafted to play one of them) He's not an exceptional talent like Womack or Cooper.
    We could have drafted David Baktieri in round 4 and had a similar talent. Now I think Baktieri went low for his ability, but you can find O line talent in those mid rounds.
    There was talent available to us at 19 that played a premium position (like cover corner) who we could have drafted. But JR got caught up in the mad rush for O line PLUS (and most importantly) through his own neglect, put himself in a position to have to draft the best available O lineman to fill a hole in the roster at RT.
    A hole HE created.
    Last edited by Morehead State; 12-08-2013 at 11:14 AM.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #63
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameTime View Post
    he has 0 problem with Pugh. HIs issue is with JR and where Pugh was picked and why...
    That is exactly my position.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    That's really not my position exactly.
    My view is that if you draft a RT in round 1, he has to be an exceptional talent. Same thing with guards. A guy like Womack (who I think was the best player in the draft) may not have played a premium position, but his talent was so off the charts he had to be taken where he was.
    Pugh is a nice player who doesn't play one of those positions, (at least he wasn't drafted to play one of them) He's not an exceptional talent like Womack or Cooper.
    We could have drafted David Baktieri in round 4 and had a similar talent. Now I think Baktieri went low for his ability, but you can find O line talent in those mid rounds.
    There was talent available to us at 19 that played a premium position (like cover corner) who we could have drafted. But JR got caught up in the mad rush for O line PLUS (and most importantly) through his own neglect, put himself in a position to have to draft the best available O lineman to fill a hole in the roster at RT.
    A hole HE created.
    First off, it's Warmack lol. Just thought I'd clear that up.

    As for Pugh and Bakhtiari, the funny thing is neither player would have started this year if the veterans in front of them weren't injured. In a league where you see less practices happening due to the new CBA, it makes you wonder if some of these new guys will only develop if they get extensive playing time. You can only practice for so long before the only way to show what you really have is on game day. It baffles me that someone like Matt McCants only received 3rd string snaps for the two preseasons he was here with the likes of David Carr and co, gets cut by us before the start of this season, and goes to the Raiders and fills in admirably for them at RT. Now how is that someone like McCants can suddenly become a quality 1st string type player in Oakland but not here? Is it possible that Reese realizes that Coughlin and the rest of the coaching staff are resistant to giving the younger guys opportunities unless their hands are forced? Maybe he feels he NEEDS to draft OL high now to put more pressure on them to go younger up front. After all, there would be more outside pressure to play a 1st rounder as opposed to mid/late rounders.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    My view is that if you draft a RT in round 1, he has to be an exceptional talent.
    This is where you have been proven 100% wrong and don't even realize it, or you are just a stubborn person by nature.

    Pugh, Fluker, Johnson, and Fisher all started week 1 at RT. If NFL GM's are drafting RT's between 1 and 19, and you still think it's improper, well it just makes you look like a fool.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by CrunchBunch1982 View Post
    Morehead Kiper Jr.
    That was funny.

  7. #67
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    First off, it's Warmack lol. Just thought I'd clear that up.

    As for Pugh and Bakhtiari, the funny thing is neither player would have started this year if the veterans in front of them weren't injured. In a league where you see less practices happening due to the new CBA, it makes you wonder if some of these new guys will only develop if they get extensive playing time. You can only practice for so long before the only way to show what you really have is on game day. It baffles me that someone like Matt McCants only received 3rd string snaps for the two preseasons he was here with the likes of David Carr and co, gets cut by us before the start of this season, and goes to the Raiders and fills in admirably for them at RT. Now how is that someone like McCants can suddenly become a quality 1st string type player in Oakland but not here? Is it possible that Reese realizes that Coughlin and the rest of the coaching staff are resistant to giving the younger guys opportunities unless their hands are forced? Maybe he feels he NEEDS to draft OL high now to put more pressure on them to go younger up front. After all, there would be more outside pressure to play a 1st rounder as opposed to mid/late rounders.
    Oops....Yes Warmack. He's in Tenn. so I haven't referred to him in a while.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #68
    All-Pro Eliscruzzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguinfarmer View Post
    Barrett Jones' "versatility" has gotten him nothing. He's a third string OL for STL.
    He still would've been a better pick then Nassib.
    Should the Giants fire Gilbride....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONL7L...yer_detailpage

  9. #69
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosedrool View Post
    This is where you have been proven 100% wrong and don't even realize it, or you are just a stubborn person by nature.

    Pugh, Fluker, Johnson, and Fisher all started week 1 at RT. If NFL GM's are drafting RT's between 1 and 19, and you still think it's improper, well it just makes you look like a fool.
    1. This is a completely ridiculous point.
    These guys may have started at RT but they were all drafted to be LT's eventually. And the ceilings on these guys are huge.
    Pugh's celing is that of a solid NFL player. Nothing to sneeze at of course. But he is what he is.

    A secondly....I have had no problem admitting I was wrong. I admitted that I was completely wrong about Wilson last year. I went on the MB's two weeks before last years draft singing the praises of Wilson and actually rec'd a ton of "congrats" posts from several posters when we picked him. I had a knock down drag out disagreement with Lawl (now Imgrate) regarding that. He was right. Glenn sould have been the pick, and for the exact reasons I just made.
    You don't draft RB's in round 1 unless they are exceptional...Like AP.

    So I was wrong about Wilson. But I stand on my view regarding Pugh. Solid player, but not 1st round material.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliscruzzz View Post
    He still would've been a better pick then Nassib.
    I still don't see what they saw on his tape that popped out to them. Now if the Giants want to be serious about QB after Eli, they really ought to consider Blake Bortles from UCF. This guy has already engineered several 4th quarter comebacks on the road this season and he even beat SMU in frigid conditions. He's a 6-4, 230lb pocket passer who offers more mobility than Eli too.

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