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Thread: Anyone who thinks eli will not flourish in in a west coast offense....

  1. #261
    All-Pro GameTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
    Agreed....but he didn't have a choice. For the first 6 games, the entire team was like a flaming bag of dog crap. It sucked that he had to try to put his team on his back again, like 2011.

    The major difference was that the team was 2 years older and more run down than in 2011. His biggest passing weapon, Nicks, was a basket case this year. His blindside protector, Beatty, had an atrocious season. The defense's biggest star, JPP, was a shadow of himself. Reese let a very good tight end walk, and replaced him with a guy that couldn't block to save his life. The interior of the line was weak and porous, their best lineman was a rookie. They went through 4 starting runningbacks, until they were literally signing guys off the street, like Hillis.

    Everyone has beaten this topic to death, so the only thing I'll say is that Eli had a bad season, and I can totally understand how that happened.

    Sounds to me like McAdoo is going to take an extremely detailed look at this team, and rebuild the offense from the ground up based on what he has to work with.....and that's exactly what he'll need to do given the the half-*** job our GM has done over the past several years.
    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    hear hear, well said.
    he didnt have a "choice" but to play like crap??
    Come on man. I agree the oline sucked and while that had a negative impact Eli compounded the problems on his own as well.
    I am not convinced that say the Giants Oline was good this season that Eli still wouldn't have a down year. He just looked bad.
    "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Drez View Post
    By small amount you mean 19 spots?
    19 spots? I know a lot of you love your PFF, but something is up then. Either the entire league has a terrible OL, or PFF stats when it comes to OL, isn't very good. Personally, I'd like to know the standard deviation from the middle of the road. If the difference between 30 and 15 are only a few basis points, that's like arguing which QB Rating is better 80 or 85.

    I'm sure Redeye could verify, but Pittsburgh's OL was terrible.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by GameTime View Post
    he didnt have a "choice" but to play like crap??
    Come on man. I agree the oline sucked and while that had a negative impact Eli compounded the problems on his own as well.
    I am not convinced that say the Giants Oline was good this season that Eli still wouldn't have a down year. He just looked bad.
    and thats entirely fair. we're all allowed to believe what we want. fwiw, that contention isnt just JMFP or mine, but Mayocks, Simms, Aikmans, etc (who all repeatedly throughout the year referred to our OL and how no QB could sustain a high level of play. literally. it was discussed countlessly over the telecasts of the games. and i personally happen to agree.

    theres a diff in pressures I guess. Off the edge is 1 thing, but up the middle immediately and frequently in combination with frequent pressure off his blind side edge (Beatty), well thats an entirely diff thing, isn't it? 2011, the interior performed worlds better and that was even wit a faultering Baas.

    2013, the first 6 weeks we didnt field te same starting OL iirc, and, further, we fielded the most combinations of starting RBs and OL of any team since the inception of the SB. this wasnt ur garden variety pressure, this was a free for all for DL's. DD got a -27.someting grade from PFF and that was in 11 games. He couldnt even physically handle DL anymore.

    I just dont know wat pocket QB in the world could have overcome that. Did he have to play as poorly as he did? hell no. and that IS on Eli. but in terms of succeeding with a high level of play? he really never had a shot. had he played like he did the final 10 games tose first 6 games, eli doesnt have nearly as terrible a season as he did. and those first 6 weeks, i dont put solely on eli, especially for trying to somehow win games wit an offense that had no business taking the field...

    and pls, get over it. Pitt had a SIGNIFICANTLY better pass blocking OL> as has been repeated countlessly by myself and others, Big Ben prefers to play backyard ball and turn broken plays into big ones, which extends plays longer than OL's can hold up. I wish we had any other teams interior OL in the league tis past year. literally any other teams.

  4. #264
    but to tie my last post to the current OC situation, I dont think KG helped the situation at all, on several levels.

    the biggest 1 i cant wrap my head around at the moment, is why we took someone who DECIMATED defenses with underneath routes and play designs in Cruz, and decided that in 2013, with all the immediate pressure, to NOT feature him in a similar role to 2011. Instead, Cruz seemed to predominantly run intermediate to deep routes. now it could be entirely possible that since Nicks wasnt getting the doubles or attn from defenses and instead, Cruz was, tat for the offense to function Cruz needed to run those deeper routes as to take those 2 defenders covering him away from the plays design. but c'mon. we had a guy who could kill defenses with short routes and underneath stuff not too differently than SS12 in 2009, and didnt bother with getting back to that when it was so desperately needed considering the OL issues.

    those first 6 weeks were a **** storm.

    and Gametime, to add to my response to you, the carolina game is an example of what i was trying to convey, that no QB could really sustain a high level of play with the OL we fielded. could any pocket QB in the history of the game, have played at a high level that game?
    Last edited by giantsfan420; 01-21-2014 at 11:22 PM.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Ben was sacked 42 times to Eli's 39, and I doubt anyone would argue he is less mobile than Eli... while sacks don't tell the whole story, I think it is pretty safe to say he was working behind a horrible O-line as well.
    I don't think Ben's line was particularly good, although they seemed to run block decently and tHey had a solid RB all year long, that helps. Also, maybe Ben decided to take more sacks and Eli decided to throw more ill advised picks instead.

    Personally, I'd rather take the sacks.

  6. #266
    All-Pro joemorrisforprez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameTime View Post
    he didnt have a "choice" but to play like crap??
    Come on man. I agree the oline sucked and while that had a negative impact Eli compounded the problems on his own as well.
    I am not convinced that say the Giants Oline was good this season that Eli still wouldn't have a down year. He just looked bad.
    The choice:

    A) Play it safe, and definitely lose.
    B) Play with reckless abandon, and hope to hit some big plays......probably lose, and lose really ugly, but at least there's a chance.

    I'm not going to blame Eli for a General Manager who's drafting philosophy seemed to rest on the premise that every year Eli can pass for 5000 yards, regardless of the state of the offensive line.

    Reese should have been kissing (and protecting) Eli's *** for delivering a Super Bowl victory in 2011 with a declining roster....instead, Reese took it as some sort of wacky confirmation of his drafting genius.

    Sorry, that's on the GM, not the QB. The QB has already proven what he can do with the right supporting cast. 2 years later, and the wheels fell off. Totally unsurprising that Eli would struggle.

    He had a bad year, and for completely understandable reasons.
    Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 01-22-2014 at 01:43 AM.
    “Losers assemble in little groups and complain about the coaches and the players in other little groups, but winners assemble as a team,”

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  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
    The choice:

    A) Play it safe, and definitely lose.
    B) Play with reckless abandon, and hope to hit some big plays......probably lose, and lose really ugly, but at least there's a chance.

    I'm not going to blame Eli for a General Manager who's drafting philosophy seemed to rest on the premise that every year Eli can pass for 5000 yards, regardless of the state of the offensive line.

    Reese should have been kissing (and protecting) Eli's *** for delivering a Super Bowl victory in 2011 with a declining roster....instead, Reese took it as some sort of wacky confirmation of his drafting genius.

    Sorry, that's on the GM, not the QB. The QB has already proven what he can do with the right supporting cast. 2 years later, and the wheels fell off. Totally unsurprising that Eli would struggle.

    He had a bad year, and for completely understandable reasons.
    really well said. i wish for those who not only disagree, but seem to take offense with those that hold the opinion you stated so well, would read your post and highlight what's not right, bc, there isn't anything wrong in what you said imo.

  8. #268
    Administrator Die-Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
    The choice:

    A) Play it safe, and definitely lose.
    B) Play with reckless abandon, and hope to hit some big plays......probably lose, and lose really ugly, but at least there's a chance.

    I'm not going to blame Eli for a General Manager who's drafting philosophy seemed to rest on the premise that every year Eli can pass for 5000 yards, regardless of the state of the offensive line.

    Reese should have been kissing (and protecting) Eli's *** for delivering a Super Bowl victory in 2011 with a declining roster....instead, Reese took it as some sort of wacky confirmation of his drafting genius.

    Sorry, that's on the GM, not the QB. The QB has already proven what he can do with the right supporting cast. 2 years later, and the wheels fell off. Totally unsurprising that Eli would struggle.

    He had a bad year, and for completely understandable reasons.
    Its also possible that we've seen the best of what Eli has left, and he's now on the decline. A possibility, not neccessarily my own personal opinion.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die-Hard View Post
    Its also possible that we've seen the best of what Eli has left, and he's now on the decline. A possibility, not neccessarily my own personal opinion.
    I think it is your wish.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
    The choice:

    A) Play it safe, and definitely lose.
    B) Play with reckless abandon, and hope to hit some big plays......probably lose, and lose really ugly, but at least there's a chance.

    I'm not going to blame Eli for a General Manager who's drafting philosophy seemed to rest on the premise that every year Eli can pass for 5000 yards, regardless of the state of the offensive line.

    Reese should have been kissing (and protecting) Eli's *** for delivering a Super Bowl victory in 2011 with a declining roster....instead, Reese took it as some sort of wacky confirmation of his drafting genius.

    Sorry, that's on the GM, not the QB. The QB has already proven what he can do with the right supporting cast. 2 years later, and the wheels fell off. Totally unsurprising that Eli would struggle.

    He had a bad year, and for completely understandable reasons.
    Eli si part of the bad offense that was put on the field. He is not responsible for the oline but he responsible for his decsions.His decsions were not born of "I gotta do some reckless so we maybe can win". How about lets make some completions and get some first downs. I dont put all the balm on Eli and I dig Eli but he played like **** thios season big time. Sometimes it was because of the lack of protection, sometimes it was a lack of understanding from the WRs, and sometimes his head was up his *** too.
    I fully expect Eli to bounce back with a better overall offense next season. But he certainly was part of the problem this past season.

    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    really well said. i wish for those who not only disagree, but seem to take offense with those that hold the opinion you stated so well, would read your post and highlight what's not right, bc, there isn't anything wrong in what you said imo.
    butt kisser.....
    "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
    You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

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