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  1. #81
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
    The thing that rattled my chain this morning was when I read that Die Hard was surprised that management has not given Eli a reason to look over his shoulder, even though a team lead by him wins the SB 20% of the time. I don't think anyone besides Brady can say that.

    Edit---...and, oh, btw...I think JR drafted Nassib for that very reason...along with the fact that teams like SF and Seattle are winning with QB's that have a much smaller salary...freeng up money for other big names.
    Diehard never mentioned that he was surprised by it, he simply mentioned it as fact.

    I understand you are trying to defend Eli, but you need to be fair and not put words in anybody's mouth.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Those first round busts were paid based on what they did in college and the belief that it would translate into the NFL. Your point is valid, but those first round busts are prefect examples of basing your entire decision on past performance and ignores the primary goal... to win now and into the future. Flacco was paid because of the SB, AND the belief that he would continue to play well and give them the chance to win again. If they didn't believe that, then signing Flacco to a big contract was a bad decision. No smart team would give away huge chunks of cash to a player if they didn't think he was able to play.
    To me Flacco would have been paid no matter what. 6 years in the league 5 playoff appearances. Winning the SB got him extra cash...

  3. #83
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
    Another way of saying, "What have you done for me lately?"

    I wonder if the Saints are going to prepare for life after Brees...I mean...what has he done for them lately? I sure hope Peyton wins it all this year, or the Broncos might need to start looking.

    It just irritates the crap out of me that you see a season full of people flattening, chasing, hurrying, no holes for running...and it's all Eli.

    No one has ever stated that. Eli takes the heat for his short-comings, not those of the others.
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  4. #84
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    No one has ever stated that. Eli takes the heat for his short-comings, not those of the others.
    Rosey, you are right for the thoughtful ones here but there are some who begin and end with dumping on Eli........blindly of course.

    go Blue!!
    No one remembers who came in second.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYGhtmare View Post
    To me Flacco would have been paid no matter what. 6 years in the league 5 playoff appearances. Winning the SB got him extra cash...
    Agreed... you need to read the conversation in its entirety to understand this one small snippet. To sum it up, I stated a few pages back that Eli is judged not JUST by his past two SBs, but on the belief that he will help them win in the future. Apparently winning in the future is irrelevant, only winning in the past matters.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

  6. #86
    Administrator Die-Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Agreed... you need to read the conversation in its entirety to understand this one small snippet. To sum it up, I stated a few pages back that Eli is judged not JUST by his past two SBs, but on the belief that he will help them win in the future. Apparently winning in the future is irrelevant, only winning in the past matters.
    That was largely the point I was on. The past was nice, but I'm concentrating on the future, and what this team will look like going forward, just as management is, no doubt. The past matters to a degree, of course, but not to the point of possibly damaging the future, or at least prolonging the wait for future success. It seems to be an alien concept to some.

  7. #87
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die-Hard View Post
    That was largely the point I was on. The past was nice, but I'm concentrating on the future, and what this team will look like going forward, just as management is, no doubt. The past matters to a degree, of course, but not to the point of possibly damaging the future, or at least prolonging the wait for future success. It seems to be an alien concept to some.
    Yup. I was confused by that as well.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die-Hard View Post
    That was largely the point I was on. The past was nice, but I'm concentrating on the future, and what this team will look like going forward, just as management is, no doubt. The past matters to a degree, of course, but not to the point of possibly damaging the future, or at least prolonging the wait for future success. It seems to be an alien concept to some.
    Yeah.... if you enjoyed the wins in the past, you would think that wanting to do it again would make sense.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Those first round busts were paid based on what they did in college and the belief that it would translate into the NFL. Your point is valid, but those first round busts are prefect examples of basing your entire decision on past performance and ignores the primary goal... to win now and into the future. Flacco was paid because of the SB, AND the belief that he would continue to play well and give them the chance to win again. If they didn't believe that, then signing Flacco to a big contract was a bad decision. No smart team would give away huge chunks of cash to a player if they didn't think he was able to play.
    The key word you use here is BELIEF and as Nostradamus is no longer with us that is ALL we have. All you really have to base a decision on is what you have seen and what you Believe that tells you about what to expect now and into the future.

    Obviously, in Eli's case you have his past accomplishments and then the most recent season and a half which was poor. However, there are extenuating circumstances in his performance of late. I saw opposing teams with receivers running wide open while Eli's targets were smothered most of the time.
    I saw an O-line collapsing at the snap across the board. I saw no running game. I saw a QB getting hit from every possible angle.

    Elway didn't win it all till he had a running game. Marino never won it all.

    Collins was never the same after Romanowski broke his jaw and David Carr was a rising star until he got pistol whipped to a shadow of himself.

    If Eli isn't completely broken from playing behind this egregious line I would expect him to play at a high level for a couple more years or more behind an even average line and especially in a more QB friendly system.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Cusen View Post
    The key word you use here is BELIEF and as Nostradamus is no longer with us that is ALL we have. All you really have to base a decision on is what you have seen and what you Believe that tells you about what to expect now and into the future.

    Obviously, in Eli's case you have his past accomplishments and then the most recent season and a half which was poor. However, there are extenuating circumstances in his performance of late. I saw opposing teams with receivers running wide open while Eli's targets were smothered most of the time.
    I saw an O-line collapsing at the snap across the board. I saw no running game. I saw a QB getting hit from every possible angle.

    Elway didn't win it all till he had a running game. Marino never won it all.

    Collins was never the same after Romanowski broke his jaw and David Carr was a rising star until he got pistol whipped to a shadow of himself.

    If Eli isn't completely broken from playing behind this egregious line I would expect him to play at a high level for a couple more years or more behind an even average line and especially in a more QB friendly system.
    I am in no way suggesting that Eli isn't the right choice at QB... in fact just the opposite. If you read back several pages you will see that I have been saying pretty much the same thing you just did. However, one poster disagrees and suggested that Eli should be paid based solely on his two SBs and no consideration should be given to the belief or assumption that he can continue to perform at a high level. I am not sure how what I am saying could possibly be construed as saying something negative about Eli

    I agree that Eli will bounce back, assuming the O-line and scheme issues are addressed.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

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