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Thread: A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

  1. #671
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...

  2. #672

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...
    [/quote]Well not every team is as astute as Bill Belicheck and the NE Patriots. A lot of those playersU mentioned where not drafted or even signed as rookies by the Patriots.These same players were discarded by other teams. The Patriots more thenany other team take what a guy does well and maximizes it. Those same players when they wereother teams werent half the players they arenow.

  3. #673
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...
    [/quote]Well not every team is as astute as Bill Belicheck and the NE Patriots. A lot of those playersU mentioned where not drafted or even signed as rookies by the Patriots.These same players were discarded by other teams. The Patriots more thenany other team take what a guy does well and maximizes it. Those same players when they wereother teams werent half the players they arenow.[/quote] thats not really the point, the point is about the players, and outta 5players named, only 2 played for other teams besides New England... The fact is these players are ball players and no how to play the game the right way and all were very productive in college and weren't given the chance that others are given because they were short on some measurable or something, which happens all the time.. Theres a ton of players that don't ever get the chance because of measurables , that can put up impact numbers... I mean, look at guys like Steve Largent and Wayne Chrebet, there the lucky ones that were at leaste given a shot, and succeeded.. Also, u can't blame Deion branch for not doing well in Seattle, with that bum throwing to him up there, and wes welker showed signs before coming to new england, but needed a Real chance, and got one in New England... Theres a ton of players out there like this, how about Fred Jackson? To slow, not big college...etc...etc Well, hes a heck of a back! So far, all Fred Jackson has done, is easily out played 2first RD top RB's in spiller and Lynch... My point simply is, to many times, guys get overlooked because of measurables and 40times, and because of that, u See the easiest of INT"s or Catches dropped, that make your head spin, and horrible routes and ...etc...etc Now, i understand some live up to the hype, but man, some of these guys who are just smart and play the game the right way and know how to catch and simply put, play football, need to not be overlooked so much...

  4. #674
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote]

    I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are.

    That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...

  5. #675

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique

  6. #676

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"]Sure Luck could be a bust. But frankly, hes the best QB prospect to come around in a very very long time. He is the best NFL prospect to come around in a long time, more highly rated than Suh, Calvin Johnson, etc.[/quote] totally diffrent positon then johnson and suh, so i dont buy that for a second.. If Suh ends up being the best DT in the league for yrs to come and Calvin keeps doing what hes doing, then how can he be a better prospect then them? Those 2 are doing exactly what they were drafted to do and if they keep playing stellar ball, its kinda hard to say there not exactly the top prospects they were supposed to be, theres no way at all to compare...
    [/quote]How a guy plays in the NFL has nothing to do with what kind of College prospect they are. Slip is talking about comparing players on what they areand what they are projected to be "There Ceiling"at the time they are drafted no more no less. There NFL success does not factor into the equation.

  7. #677

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote]Yeah I prefer the Athletes much more on defense myself. Defense is so much more predicated on emotion and instincts. To me it just seems easier to harness raw ability on defense. Guys with raw technique and motor can simply overwhelm the opposition with brute physical ability. On offense there is a more controlledatmosphere where those kind of abilities arent aseasily exploited

  8. #678
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...

  9. #679
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...

  10. #680

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...
    [/quote] Whatever man if U cant see that he was a raw player in terms of how to properly play the position then theres really know point even discussing it .I can see an improvement in his hands and how he uses leverage since he came to the NFL.If he knew how to do it in college he certainly wasnt doing it.So whatever the Giants have done to get him to listen and take it on the field well thats the point of coaching.I dont know what your talking about up top I never said he would have to sit on the bench. I said he could be used as a situational pass rusher and thats exactly what they have used him as.What Ive hear about Iupati is he has been rather ordinary actually. If your a guard and your picked that high Im looking for an immediateprobowl player and he has been far from that. He has had big time pass protection issues. According to 49er fans still has poor technique so I guess he is uncoachable then if U think they have been learning it for years and he still cant do it right.


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