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Thread: A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

  1. #681
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"]What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? [/quote]

    First off, college and highschool coaches rarely have time to teach little things. They dont usually even have position coaches, and when they do, lets face it, its not like a college or highschool position coach is going to have the knowledge that an NFL coach does.

    Second, you are VASTLY oversimplifying football. There is a ton of stuff for DEs to learn, how to read pass/run, how to combat various blocks, different positions, etc etc.

  2. #682
    All-Pro nycsportzfan's Avatar
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="nycsportzfan"]What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? [/quote]

    First off, college and highschool coaches rarely have time to teach little things. They dont usually even have position coaches, and when they do, lets face it, its not like a college or highschool position coach is going to have the knowledge that an NFL coach does.

    Second, you are VASTLY oversimplifying football. There is a ton of stuff for DEs to learn, how to read pass/run, how to combat various blocks, different positions, etc etc.[/quote] Ya, i'm sure this guy, has no clue about DE's...lol All american, national champion DE for miami, whos been doing nothing but dedicating his life to teaching Dlineman, and more specific, DE's... I'm sure, JPP learned nothing for a yr under this guy... THeres a Jump in the competiton when going pro and the playbook and scheme, but almost everything that was needed to be learned about the positon, JPP already knows, your fooling yourself if u think some secret was given to him in the pro's about hand placement or technique hasen't already been said to him.. Sure, theres room to learn, what speed to go at, and when to do this or that, but the guy knows how to play the positon, man..





























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    Kevin Patrick





































    Position:

    Assistant Coach - Defensive Tackles

    Alma Mater:

    Miami

    Graduating Year:

    1994

    Experience:

    6 Years

    Phone:

    813-974-9760 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting813-974-9760end_of_the_skype_highlighting

    Email:

    kpatrick@usf.edu









    Kevin Patrick Bio

















    Courtesy: USF

    Release: 02/27/2008


















































































































    NFL Proteges
    Jarriett Buie Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    Jason Pierre-Paul New York Giants
    George Selvie St. Louis Rams
    Coaching Experience - Five Years
    Year School/Team Assignment
    1996 USF Defensive Ends
    1997 USF Defensive Ends
    1998 USF Defensive Ends
    2008 USF Defensive Ends
    2009 USF Defensive Line
    2010 USF Defensive Tackles
    Playing Experience
    1985-89 Four-year letterwinner, defensive line, Forest Hill HS, West Palm Beach, Fla.
    1988-89 Two-year letterwinner, track and field, Forest Hill HS
    1989-93 Four-year letterwinner, defensive end, University of Miami
    Education
    1994 B.S. in business administration, University of Miami
    Personal Data
    Full Name Kevin Patrick
    Age 38
    Born July 30, 1971 in Phoenix, Ariz.
    Wife Rachel
    Children Grace (06/15/02) and Belle (11/15/05)














    Follow @USFKevinPatrick on Twitter


    Assistant coachKevin Patrick enters his third season with the
    University of South Florida football program for the 2010 season after
    being named to the position of assistant coach with responsibility over
    the teamís defensive ends on Feb. 25, 2007.

    Patrick will oversee
    the defensive tackles for the 2010 season after spending 2008 coaching
    the defensive ends and 2009 mentoring the entire defensive line.

    This
    is the second time Patrick has been an assistant with USF. He initially
    joined the staff in 1996 when he also oversaw the defensive ends. He
    was on the staff through the 1998 season.

    In his second season
    back with the Bulls, Patrick oversaw the development of junior college
    transfer Jason Pierre-Paul, a first-team All-American for the 2009
    campaign as named by Pro Football Weekly and was the No. 15 overall pick
    in the 2010 NFL Draft by the New York Giants. Pierre-Paul was also
    named first-team all-conference by the BIG EAST coaches, ESPN,
    Rivals.com and the Sporting News along with second-team honors by Phil
    Steele.


    Former two-time All-American George Selvie earned All-BIG EAST Second
    Team honors by the league coaches and Phil Steele. Under Patrickís
    tutelage the last two seasons, Selvie finished his career as the most
    prolific defensive players in USF history, topped off by being selected
    in the seventh round by the St. Louis Rams in the 2010 Draft.

    USF's
    defensive ends posted 21.5 of the Bulls' 25 sacks on the season in
    2009, along with 37 tackles for loss. The defensive line anchored a
    defensive unit that finished second in the BIG EAST in scoring defense
    in 2009 and third in total defense.




    Patrick flourished during his first season back with the Bulls. He
    helped defensive end George Selvie repeat as a first team All-American
    and assisted a defensive unit that ranked No. 10 nationally in total
    defense.Patrick also reeled in a pair of national awards on the
    recruiting trail. Rivals named him one of the top 25
    recruiters in America and the top recruiter in the BIG EAST. The
    acclaim came after four-star recruits Ryne Giddens, Jacquain Williams,
    Jason Pierre-Paul and Julius Forte inked with USF on National Signing
    Day.

    During his playing days, Patrick was an All-American
    defensive end at the University of Miami from 1989-93. He was a major
    contributor on the Hurricane team that claimed two National
    Championships withwins over Nebraska in the 1992 Orange Bowl and over
    Alabama in the 1990 Sugar Bowl. Patrick also played in the Cotton and
    Fiesta Bowls during his career.




    He isthe second individual in the USF program to have earned BIG
    EAST Defensive Player of the Year honors. Patrick claimed his in 1993,
    whiletwo-time All-American George Selvie earned that honor in 2007.




    Patrick earned his All-America honors and team MVP accolades in 1993
    when he collected 10 sacks. During his career he tallied 174 tackles
    and 23 sacks, which ranks fifth in program history.





  3. #683
    All-Pro nycsportzfan's Avatar
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"]

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...
    [/quote] Whatever man if U cant see that he was a raw player in terms of how to properly play the position then theres really know point even discussing it .I can see an improvement in his hands and how he uses leverage since he came to the NFL.If he knew how to do it in college he certainly wasnt doing it.So whatever the Giants have done to get him to listen and take it on the field well thats the point of coaching.I dont know what your talking about up top I never said he would have to sit on the bench. I said he could be used as a situational pass rusher and thats exactly what they have used him as.What Ive hear about Iupati is he has been rather ordinary actually. If your a guard and your picked that high Im looking for an immediateprobowl player and he has been far from that. He has had big time pass protection issues. According to 49er fans still has poor technique so I guess he is uncoachable then if U think they have been learning it for years and he still cant do it right.

    [/quote] i just don't see how u see this? I mean, what do u do, hit the pause button when and examine these things? I mean, u rarley get to see any player through a whole play, and its certainly not easy to compare a play from the Pros to when he was at S.Florida... I realize hes still learning certain things, but the guy knows how to use his hands and what not.. I mean, what was Kevin Patrick teaching this guy at S.Florida? Hes getting used to the talent jump, and the speed of the game and using certain DE moves and stuff, sure... But to think, hes learning on Hand Usage is crazy, as i'm sure hes perfectly adept at using his hands, and has had that drilled into his head time and time again over the past few yrs... I thought he was gonna be good this yr, just as i did, Mike Iupati..

    I guess, u could say hes still learning stuff, but how much is there to learn at DE? I mean, does it take 5yrs to learn how to play the freaking positon? if your good at the positon and have the talent, is the reason you'll produce, not that your learning the positon of DE for yrs and yrs.. The hardest part about any positon going into the NFL, is Scheme change, SPeed of the game, and using what you've all ready learned consistently and knowing when to use that.. Sure, i'm sure theres little tricks and tidbits a coach can give JPP on playing the position, but as far as playing the positon of DE, i'm sure hes heard it all, its just a matter of practicing and continuing to Drill the stuff all ready learned time and time again and learn the rest of the league

  4. #684
    All-Pro nycsportzfan's Avatar
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    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"]

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...
    [/quote] Whatever man if U cant see that he was a raw player in terms of how to properly play the position then theres really know point even discussing it .I can see an improvement in his hands and how he uses leverage since he came to the NFL.If he knew how to do it in college he certainly wasnt doing it.So whatever the Giants have done to get him to listen and take it on the field well thats the point of coaching.I dont know what your talking about up top I never said he would have to sit on the bench. I said he could be used as a situational pass rusher and thats exactly what they have used him as.What Ive hear about Iupati is he has been rather ordinary actually. If your a guard and your picked that high Im looking for an immediateprobowl player and he has been far from that. He has had big time pass protection issues. According to 49er fans still has poor technique so I guess he is uncoachable then if U think they have been learning it for years and he still cant do it right.

    [/quote] and as far as 9er fans, my best freind is a 9er fan, like crazy 9er fan, almost freakishly so, and he loves iupati, and i've seen him highlighted on monday night football for job well done, when they were running like mad men on Arizona, with b.westbrook, mite i add.. I mean, hes been solid, and there run game says so...

    Singeltary has said from day 1, that iupati has showed the abilty to step in and start from DAY 1, he was all ready given the starting job in freaking August, before pre season even began, because of what he showed during Training camp... Pretty good, for a guy whos got all this learning on the positon to do... And again, i understand theres a whole new play book and scheme and speed of the game to learn, but the guy knows how to play Guard, its what he freaking does for a living...

  5. #685

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="nycsportzfan"]What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? [/quote] First off, college and highschool coaches rarely have time to teach little things. They dont usually even have position coaches, and when they do, lets face it, its not like a college or highschool position coach is going to have the knowledge that an NFL coach does. Second, you are VASTLY oversimplifying football. There is a ton of stuff for DEs to learn, how to read pass/run, how to combat various blocks, different positions, etc etc.[/quote]Thank U christ Im just going to give up discussing anything like this. College offenses today are in no shape or form anything like a pro offense. Therefore there is different ways and techniques used to attack those offenses and those blocks.There is a good chance that theres certain things the coaches at SF didnt teach because they didnt go up against it.Also being raw can mean not reading the defense correctly and attacking the wrong way theres a lot that goes into it.There are entirely many more variables more then just a " Bullrush".It was a testament to just how physically dominantPaul was that he was even in aposition to make asmany playsas he did at South Florida.

  6. #686

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]


    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...
    [/quote] Whatever man if U cant see that he was a raw player in terms of how to properly play the position then theres really know point even discussing it .I can see an improvement in his hands and how he uses leverage since he came to the NFL.If he knew how to do it in college he certainly wasnt doing it.So whatever the Giants have done to get him to listen and take it on the field well thats the point of coaching.I dont know what your talking about up top I never said he would have to sit on the bench. I said he could be used as a situational pass rusher and thats exactly what they have used him as.What Ive hear about Iupati is he has been rather ordinary actually. If your a guard and your picked that high Im looking for an immediateprobowl player and he has been far from that. He has had big time pass protection issues. According to 49er fans still has poor technique so I guess he is uncoachable then if U think they have been learning it for years and he still cant do it right.




    [/quote] i just don't see how u see this? I mean, what do u do, hit the pause button when and examine these things? I mean, u rarley get to see any player through a whole play, and its certainly not easy to compare a play from the Pros to when he was at S.Florida... I realize hes still learning certain things, but the guy knows how to use his hands and what not.. I mean, what was Kevin Patrick teaching this guy at S.Florida? Hes getting used to the talent jump, and the speed of the game and using certain DE moves and stuff, sure... But to think, hes learning on Hand Usage is crazy, as i'm sure hes perfectly adept at using his hands, and has had that drilled into his head time and time again over the past few yrs... I thought he was gonna be good this yr, just as i did, Mike Iupati..

    I guess, u could say hes still learning stuff, but how much is there to learn at DE? I mean, does it take 5yrs to learn how to play the freaking positon? if your good at the positon and have the talent, is the reason you'll produce, not that your learning the positon of DE for yrs and yrs.. The hardest part about any positon going into the NFL, is Scheme change, SPeed of the game, and using what you've all ready learned consistently and knowing when to use that.. Sure, i'm sure theres little tricks and tidbits a coach can give JPP on playing the position, but as far as playing the positon of DE, i'm sure hes heard it all, its just a matter of practicing and continuing to Drill the stuff all ready learned time and time again and learn the rest of the league
    [/quote]




    Thats exactly what I do. . I pay much more attention to the defensive players then to offensive on a whole "QB's the exception".I like watching defensive lineman the mostthere my favorite players.Daquan Bowers has become one of my favorite players in this draft.He plays with just so much power.He is an elite run defender and should become an excellent LEwho U kick inside on passing downs in the NFL.Ive watched him a lot and Ive also become a fan of his line mate Jarvis Jenkins as well.If Coefield isnt brought back I think Jenkins would be a good option inside.


  7. #687

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="slipknottin"]Athleticism, toughness, and instincts are the three most important parts. Mental toughness in both the ability to play through injuries, and the attitude to work hard on and off the field. Polish and proper technique are overrated. Every single team would chose the more athletic guy over the less athletic more polished guy assuming all else is equal[/quote]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] All i know, is the best team in football, has 7th rd draft pick Tom Brady throwing to undrafted Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead, and Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis toating the rock... Also, Deion branch isn't exactly a Physical Specimen...lol A very good player on that defense, Gary Guyton, also i believe undrafted, or at least late late rd... I believe that u first and fore most must be a productive college player, as u don't want those athletic players that "COULD" end up being stellar.. I think the combine is just one step, and when teams use it to much, is when trouble starts.. I love the way the Patriots draft, and the type of players they bring along, its really, the right way, in my opinion...
    [/quote]Well not every team is as astute as Bill Belicheck and the NE Patriots. A lot of those playersU mentioned where not drafted or even signed as rookies by the Patriots.These same players were discarded by other teams. The Patriots more thenany other team take what a guy does well and maximizes it. Those same players when they wereother teams werent half the players they arenow.[/quote] thats not really the point, the point is about the players, and outta 5players named, only 2 played for other teams besides New England... The fact is these players are ball players and no how to play the game the right way and all were very productive in college and weren't given the chance that others are given because they were short on some measurable or something, which happens all the time.. Theres a ton of players that don't ever get the chance because of measurables , that can put up impact numbers... I mean, look at guys like Steve Largent and Wayne Chrebet, there the lucky ones that were at leaste given a shot, and succeeded.. Also, u can't blame Deion branch for not doing well in Seattle, with that bum throwing to him up there, and wes welker showed signs before coming to new england, but needed a Real chance, and got one in New England... Theres a ton of players out there like this, how about Fred Jackson? To slow, not big college...etc...etc Well, hes a heck of a back! So far, all Fred Jackson has done, is easily out played 2first RD top RB's in spiller and Lynch... My point simply is, to many times, guys get overlooked because of measurables and 40times, and because of that, u See the easiest of INT"s or Catches dropped, that make your head spin, and horrible routes and ...etc...etc Now, i understand some live up to the hype, but man, some of these guys who are just smart and play the game the right way and know how to catch and simply put, play football, need to not be overlooked so much...
    [/quote]




    Thats fine but your going to find that when U cherry pick players like that. For instance take a look at the RB position. A place where some believe U can plug in anyone because of success of UDFA and later round draft picks. While at times that may be true most of the top 20 backs in rushing are fromthe top 3 rounds. 15 of the top 20 backs in rushingare top 3 round backs and 8 out of the top 10 are top 3 round backs. Ive beenfollowing this for about 5 years now and every year I find the same thing. When U look closer U find out most of the backs thathave succeess that are late round backs dont duplicate that success very long. There very often a flash in the pan while the higher round backs tend to have longer staying power near the top. So while its true U can find good players in any round there is a much higher success rate in the top picks. What I did find intresting while I have been monitoring this is the infrequency of Middle round backs in the top 20. Its like you are either a top draft pick or UDFA ,7th rounder.







    Top 20




    7First Rounders




    6 2nd Rounders




    2 3rd rounders




    27th Rounder




    3 UDFA


  8. #688

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft



    [quote user="nycsportzfan"]I guess, u could say hes still learning stuff, but how much is there to learn at DE? I mean, does it take 5yrs to learn how to play the freaking positon? if your good at the positon and have the talent, is the reason you'll produce, not that your learning the positon of DE for yrs and yrs.. The hardest part about any positon going into the NFL, is Scheme change, SPeed of the game, and using what you've all ready learned consistently and knowing when to use that.. Sure, i'm sure theres little tricks and tidbits a coach can give JPP on playing the position, but as far as playing the positon of DE, i'm sure hes heard it all, its just a matter of practicing and continuing to Drill the stuff all ready learned time and time again and learn the rest of the league
    [/quote]




    In JPP's case, there is a lot more learning curve than just the speed of the game and a new system. Its not that easy playing DE when you have no technique like JPP does. As a defensive lineman you must win at the point of attack, maintain leverage by staying low with a good level, anchor & set the edge, and shed blockers with proper hand technique. JPP wasn't very good at that in college as he had a tendency to be on the ground a lot against the run because he was so raw with all the things I mentioned. He made plays against therun in college (particularly his TFL's)with his quickness& athleticismrather than technique which obviously wouldn't work in the nfl.You can't blame scounts and people being critical with the draft pick because peeps prefered a safer pick who can be an immediate starter as oppose to a raw, boom-or-bust kind of guy like JPP who needed development and was a 15th overall pick no less.




    As for the pass, JPP's stance wasn't very polished and his pass rush moves was lacking. All he relied on in college was a speed rush with an occasional bull rush, nothing else. In my opinion you can't fault the people for critizing JPP because he was so raw and the learning curve in the NFL would be tough. Luckily we have a good coaching staff here and JPP is known to have good work ethic. They adjusted his stance at rookie camp and he's shown more pass rushing moves as his sack last week against trent williams was impressive. This guy is progressing a lot. I think its right using him a situational pass rusher as he's still too raw to play against the run and is still probably a couple of years away from being a 3-down player (altho thats not necessary here). I also think justin tuck and other d-lineman are going to help him polish up his technique against the run as justin tuck said 'im teaching JPP everything I know' which is incredibly encouraging to hear.


  9. #689

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="Neverend"]


    [quote user="nycsportzfan"]I guess, u could say hes still learning stuff, but how much is there to learn at DE? I mean, does it take 5yrs to learn how to play the freaking positon? if your good at the positon and have the talent, is the reason you'll produce, not that your learning the positon of DE for yrs and yrs.. The hardest part about any positon going into the NFL, is Scheme change, SPeed of the game, and using what you've all ready learned consistently and knowing when to use that.. Sure, i'm sure theres little tricks and tidbits a coach can give JPP on playing the position, but as far as playing the positon of DE, i'm sure hes heard it all, its just a matter of practicing and continuing to Drill the stuff all ready learned time and time again and learn the rest of the league
    [/quote]




    In JPP's case, there is a lot more learning curve than just the speed of the game and a new system. Its not that easy playing DE when you have no technique like JPP does. As a defensive lineman you must win at the point of attack, maintain leverage by staying low with a good level, anchor & set the edge, and shed blockers with proper hand technique. JPP wasn't very good at that in college as he had a tendency to be on the ground a lot against the run because he was so raw with all the things I mentioned. He made plays against therun in college (particularly his TFL's)with his quickness& athleticismrather than technique which obviously wouldn't work in the nfl.You can't blame scounts and people being critical with the draft pick because peeps prefered a safer pick who can be an immediate starter as oppose to a raw, boom-or-bust kind of guy like JPP who needed development and was a 15th overall pick no less.




    As for the pass, JPP's stance wasn't very polished and his pass rush moves was lacking. All he relied on in college was a speed rush with an occasional bull rush, nothing else. In my opinion you can't fault the people for critizing JPP because he was so raw and the learning curve in the NFL would be tough. Luckily we have a good coaching staff here and JPP is known to have good work ethic. They adjusted his stance at rookie camp and he's shown more pass rushing moves as his sack last week against trent williams was impressive. This guy is progressing a lot. I think its right using him a situational pass rusher as he's still too raw to play against the run and is still probably a couple of years away from being a 3-down player (altho thats not necessary here). I also think justin tuck and other d-lineman are going to help him polish up his technique against the run as justin tuck said 'im teaching JPP everything I know' which is incredibly encouraging to hear.

    [/quote] He has come along way technique wise from South Florida U can visibly see the difference in how he plays the game.The extra snaps he has received from the Kiwi injury has been a godsend to him. Focusing on him in the early season games he was really have a tough go at it. He was being swallowed up rather easily. Ever since the Kiwi injury though he has really improved. U can see the difference in his game and its really encouraging. He still has problems against the run but hopefully an off-season of working withthe Giants coachesand Tuck he comes into camp as more then just a situational pass rusher.

  10. #690

    Re: A look at the 2011 NFL draft

    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]


    [quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]]I dont think its over rated I just think coaches believe that they can teach technique. I think teams draft athletes way more on defense then offense though[/quote] I think they draft athletes on both sides as often as they can. And you're right, they can teach technique. It goes back to the mental toughness and how coachable guys are. That's why a guy like JPP is a coaches dream, extremely athletic but he is very hard working, and will listen and apply everything he is told.[/quote] Plus, its not like JPP wasen't showing the signs of being a big time player.. He had a pretty darn good yr at S.Florida last yr, in his 1st as a Major College player.. 16.5 TFL, 6sacks, 1int, 2ff's, 3pass breakups.. I mean, he put some monster numbers up.. Its not like this guy came to the pros's, knowing nothing, as some made it out to be.. He'd been playing DE for like 5yrs now, learning and learning... Now, its mostly learning the speed of the Pro Game and diffrent Tendencies of Top of the line Olineman and what not... I had a feeling he'd make a impact as a rookie, and at least show the signs of him being stellar in the future.. some made it out to be, like he was gonna need to learn on the bench for this whole yr, like he never played the positon before, or something...
    [/quote]I disagree those are monster numbers. There good but there hardly monster. Technique wise he was very very raw at South Florida.His had placement was poor and he hadnext to no pass rush moves.Hejust overwhelmed the opposition with physical strength,speed, and will.He still has his trouble playing the run and that will take some time. Kiwi getting hurt has definitely helped hima lot. It has allowed him to get some more snaps and move his progress forward . He is getting by mostly on physical ability, pure tenacity, and motor.Things that will definitely help U contribute as a pass rusher. Once he gets his technique down he will grow into an all around player. With all the extra playing time he has received this year it should really help him going into next season. Maybe Justin Tuck can give JPP sometime this off season on working on his run game technique[/quote] i dissagree, he had a big time season and lead a pretty good defensive team.. Sometimes i think u guys make this out to be more like Rocket Science then football... What do u think all the coaches have been teaching this guy for the last 5yrs? How ot bullrush???lol U don't think the kids learned about hand placement from the last 4coaches hes had? I think the hardest thing for players to really learn is the playbook, the speed of the game, and yes, some little positional tendencies that come in time, but overall, the guy can play DE.. Just like i heard about Iupati, whos also starting as a rookie, and doing extremely well.. Its really not coincedence that those 2are playing very well, because there not dumb, i'm sure they've learned plenty over the last 5yrs, and mostly everything they here at this point, is just being drilled in there heads, because i'm sure they've heard it before.. Most rooks can't be successful because they at least have some sort of vet in front of em, if even for a yr, but as soon as JPP was in, we seen the potential for him to be a beast... Sure, hes just now getting the sacks and what not, but we've all seen this coming, from the time he stepped on the field, and we seen "jpp's a beast" threads from over a month ago...
    [/quote] Whatever man if U cant see that he was a raw player in terms of how to properly play the position then theres really know point even discussing it .I can see an improvement in his hands and how he uses leverage since he came to the NFL.If he knew how to do it in college he certainly wasnt doing it.So whatever the Giants have done to get him to listen and take it on the field well thats the point of coaching.I dont know what your talking about up top I never said he would have to sit on the bench. I said he could be used as a situational pass rusher and thats exactly what they have used him as.What Ive hear about Iupati is he has been rather ordinary actually. If your a guard and your picked that high Im looking for an immediateprobowl player and he has been far from that. He has had big time pass protection issues. According to 49er fans still has poor technique so I guess he is uncoachable then if U think they have been learning it for years and he still cant do it right.




    [/quote] and as far as 9er fans, my best freind is a 9er fan, like crazy 9er fan, almost freakishly so, and he loves iupati, and i've seen him highlighted on monday night football for job well done, when they were running like mad men on Arizona, with b.westbrook, mite i add.. I mean, hes been solid, and there run game says so...

    Singeltary has said from day 1, that iupati has showed the abilty to step in and start from DAY 1, he was all ready given the starting job in freaking August, before pre season even began, because of what he showed during Training camp... Pretty good, for a guy whos got all this learning on the positon to do... And again, i understand theres a whole new play book and scheme and speed of the game to learn, but the guy knows how to play Guard, its what he freaking does for a living...
    [/quote]




    Your acting like I said the guy was going to bust or something. All I said is that I dont like interior line prospects that high and If I was going to get one I would want one more polished then Iupati. I still said he was the 2nd best interior line prospect in the draft . Im just not crazy about drafting interior lineman and an upside interior lineman at that, that high.


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