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Thread: A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

  1. #3761

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high

  2. #3762

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high[/quote]

    Im comparing the upside. obviously they play different positions and have different responsibilities

    jpp did not look good at usf. he was gettin blown out of holes against the run and kept falling down by losing his balance. he looked bad at college to and only showed flashes of greatness just like brockers. but he was RAW

    Brockers is RAW with immense upside because of his size like JPP. Aint quick? He is raw! He can learn how to be aware and time off the snap better so he can be quicker and the first guy moving off the ball. He has only been playing football for so long. The scouting report on NFP says if he learns how to play lower off the ball he can be more explosive. He hasnt even played at his weight for very long!

    That is why he has so much upside he is incredibly raw but can improve. JPP had 36 inch arms and an 81 inch wingspan and everyone loved his upside!! Same for Brockers!! They are just really raw and look bad in some areas in games but you must know the upside with them. I didnt say he IS jpp just the defensive tackle version of JPP

  3. #3763
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    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high[/quote]

    My only caveat here is that Brockers is very young as well as raw... He's added so much mass in the last 2 years, I highly doubt he really has much of a feel for his body at all. Pass rushing demands a certain grace, agility, and flexibility, that I don't think he's had a chance to develop yet. He may never... but he might, just like JPP. Same with strength. So much of strength is in the mind-muscle connection and getting your body to do what you want, when you want. Young guys just don't have that.

    Right now, all he has is his size. He is a BIG kid, so that's what he uses. But if he can put it all together, that is a scary dude.

    Brockers probably SHOULD have stayed in college for another year, maybe 2.

  4. #3764

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high[/quote]

    My only caveat here is that Brockers is very young as well as raw... He's added so much mass in the last 2 years, I highly doubt he really has much of a feel for his body at all. Pass rushing demands a certain grace, agility, and flexibility, that I don't think he's had a chance to develop yet. He may never... but he might, just like JPP. Same with strength. So much of strength is in the mind-muscle connection and getting your body to do what you want, when you want. Young guys just don't have that.

    Right now, all he has is his size. He is a BIG kid, so that's what he uses. But if he can put it all together, that is a scary dude.

    Brockers probably SHOULD have stayed in college for another year, maybe 2.
    [/quote]

    Thank you! Its an adjustment playing at that weight. Can you imagine when this kid puts it all together with his JPP-like wingspan playing in the interior? He will be unblockable in the NFL

    I really really think if JPP come out a lot of people in this thread would say his upside and athleticism was overrated. And you know what, a lot of people did! Not many knew JPP was going to be the slam dunk player he was now. A lot of people thought he was boom or bust

  5. #3765

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high[/quote]

    My only caveat here is that Brockers is very young as well as raw... He's added so much mass in the last 2 years, I highly doubt he really has much of a feel for his body at all. Pass rushing demands a certain grace, agility, and flexibility, that I don't think he's had a chance to develop yet. He may never... but he might, just like JPP. Same with strength. So much of strength is in the mind-muscle connection and getting your body to do what you want, when you want. Young guys just don't have that.

    Right now, all he has is his size. He is a BIG kid, so that's what he uses. But if he can put it all together, that is a scary dude.

    Brockers probably SHOULD have stayed in college for another year, maybe 2.
    [/quote]

    Thank you! Its an adjustment playing at that weight. Can you imagine when this kid puts it all together with his JPP-like wingspan playing in the interior? He will be unblockable in the NFL

    I really really think if JPP come out a lot of people in this thread would say his upside and athleticism was overrated. And you know what, a lot of people did! Not many knew JPP was going to be the slam dunk player he was now. A lot of people thought he was boom or bust[/quote]Funny how u ignored my comment about him carrying the weight as I mentioned it already.

    Even with the added weight as a contributing factor which it could be. The comparison to JPP makes zero sense.Brockers no matter what can never attain that quickness
    Why dont U compare him to a guy that plays the same position.U want to tell me he could maybe develop into Richard Seymour I might buy it.

  6. #3766

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high[/quote]

    My only caveat here is that Brockers is very young as well as raw... He's added so much mass in the last 2 years, I highly doubt he really has much of a feel for his body at all. Pass rushing demands a certain grace, agility, and flexibility, that I don't think he's had a chance to develop yet. He may never... but he might, just like JPP. Same with strength. So much of strength is in the mind-muscle connection and getting your body to do what you want, when you want. Young guys just don't have that.

    Right now, all he has is his size. He is a BIG kid, so that's what he uses. But if he can put it all together, that is a scary dude.

    Brockers probably SHOULD have stayed in college for another year, maybe 2.
    [/quote]

    Thank you! Its an adjustment playing at that weight. Can you imagine when this kid puts it all together with his JPP-like wingspan playing in the interior? He will be unblockable in the NFL

    I really really think if JPP come out a lot of people in this thread would say his upside and athleticism was overrated. And you know what, a lot of people did! Not many knew JPP was going to be the slam dunk player he was now. A lot of people thought he was boom or bust[/quote]Funny how u ignored my comment about him carrying the weight as I mentioned it already.

    Even with the added weight as a contributing factor which it could be. The comparison to JPP makes zero sense.Brockers no matter what can never attain that quickness
    Why dont U compare him to a guy that plays the same position.U want to tell me he could maybe develop into Richard Seymour I might buy it.[/quote]

    They are very similar players coming out. Both have bad stuff in games. Both were considered overrated coming out and disliked by many. Both have elite wingspan and loads of upside.

    He can "never attain that quickness". Redeye this one is harsh even for you. He is RAW. He can learn how to be quick off the snap with more experience! As he grows into his body and play lower he can become quick and explosive. In no time he should develop his technique coming off the ball on time and timing the snap count consistently

    He is the defensive version of JPP. He will become a beast

    U are totally wrong here

  7. #3767

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    [quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Raptor22"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="nevada11"][quote user="Redeyejedi"]Have U watched tape at all. Brockers is not explosive. He wasnt on the field on passing downs. What does that tell u

    JPP has nothing to do with this at all. He isnt close to the same player as Brockers.[/quote]

    its so easy to say that now because you have watched JPP pan out in the NFL. A lot of people thought jpp was gonna bust and was overrated too

    Coming out of college JPP was praised for his upside! Why? The very one reason is because he had a verrrry rare wingspan and length. 81 inch wingspan and 36 inch arms! He was seen as an athletic freak coming out and had so much upside

    Brockers has an even LONGER wingspan at 83 inches and 35 inch arms. He has amazing upside and is going to be great at rushing the passer in the nfl. He is very raw just like JPP coming out too. JPP showed flashes of greatness and so did Brockers. If JPP had so much upside coming out but Brockers doesnt?[/quote] For the life of me I cant figure out why you are comparing a 310 pound DT to a 270 pound DE as a valid comparison.
    Have u seen Brockers play? In no shape way or form does he remind me of JPP. Its not because of how raw he is either. He just isnt the same kind of player .the only thing that they both have his length.Brockers reminds me of Chris Canty and in fact Id say Canty was quicker then Brockers at Virginia.

    Im not even saying I dislike Brockers as a prospect just wouldnt rate a non pass rushing DT that high[/quote]

    My only caveat here is that Brockers is very young as well as raw... He's added so much mass in the last 2 years, I highly doubt he really has much of a feel for his body at all. Pass rushing demands a certain grace, agility, and flexibility, that I don't think he's had a chance to develop yet. He may never... but he might, just like JPP. Same with strength. So much of strength is in the mind-muscle connection and getting your body to do what you want, when you want. Young guys just don't have that.

    Right now, all he has is his size. He is a BIG kid, so that's what he uses. But if he can put it all together, that is a scary dude.

    Brockers probably SHOULD have stayed in college for another year, maybe 2.
    [/quote]

    Thank you! Its an adjustment playing at that weight. Can you imagine when this kid puts it all together with his JPP-like wingspan playing in the interior? He will be unblockable in the NFL

    I really really think if JPP come out a lot of people in this thread would say his upside and athleticism was overrated. And you know what, a lot of people did! Not many knew JPP was going to be the slam dunk player he was now. A lot of people thought he was boom or bust[/quote]Funny how u ignored my comment about him carrying the weight as I mentioned it already.

    Even with the added weight as a contributing factor which it could be. The comparison to JPP makes zero sense.Brockers no matter what can never attain that quickness
    Why dont U compare him to a guy that plays the same position.U want to tell me he could maybe develop into Richard Seymour I might buy it.[/quote]

    They are very similar players coming out. Both have bad stuff in games. Both were considered overrated coming out and disliked by many. Both have elite wingspan and loads of upside.

    He can "never attain that quickness". Redeye this one is harsh even for you. He is RAW. He can learn how to be quick off the snap with more experience! As he grows into his body and play lower he can become quick and explosive. In no time he should develop his technique coming off the ball on time and timing the snap count consistently

    He is the defensive version of JPP. He will become a beast

    U are totally wrong here[/quote] I meant he will never match JPP's quickness because he is a 310lb DT. My issue is with your comparison it makes no sense. Just because a player is long doesnt mean he is like JPP. I dont see Brockers doing Back flips. So every player that has length is JPP. George Illoka has long arms is he JPP. I wonder if u have actually watched Brockers play because his game in no shape way or form resembles JPP's. Right Now he looks like Chris Canty . Could he develop into Seymour and be a 6-7 sack guy maybe ,but he isnt going to have 16 sacks coming off the edge.


  8. #3768

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    I like how its turned into now that I dont like Brockers.
    I think Brockers has tremendous potential. He is an elite level run defender but as a pass rusher on tape there isnt much there. Again LSU pulled him off the field for other DT's on passing downs. Now again this is LSU and they have more depth then most programs. If Brockers was at say Penn State he may be rushing the passer on 3rd down. The things that stick out though. Elite level pass rushers from the DT spot have been 1 gap shooters and he isnt that kind of player. Brockers could develop into a dominate physical presence inside. I feel he could even develop into a great 2 gap player maybe even bulk him up into a Nose Tackle

  9. #3769

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    Nevada, you make some really good solid points. But I just don't see the pass rush potential. "Long arms = great pass rush ability"? That's a ridiculous logic to follow... for an interior DT that is

    It's more like explosiveness and quickness = great pass rush ability. If the player has great length. Fine, thats a great bonus but that doesn't mean you can just base someone's ability as a pass rusher on that alone.

    Long arms in pass rush help immensely when keeping your blockers body off of you. That's more helpful on the edge as I was trying to explain to another guy on these boards. But when you're pass rushing inside, you're not trying to keep blockers "off of you" because they're moving backwards. You have to BEAT them with quickness and explosiveness which Brockers lacks. Then once you gain a step you can slap away their arms and such but since you're in a phone booth/short area arm length is a pretty irrelevant factor in such circumstances. Why? Its rather how sudden/quick/violent you are with your arms/hands when you're trying to rip/swat... not whether ur arms are 33 or 35 inches

    You're the one who is wrong here. Just because Brockers has 35 inch arms does not make him JPP or a great pass rusher in general. Canty is an excellent comparison. A guy who is an excellent run stuffer and can win with power but doesn't get much pressure overall

  10. #3770

    Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

    Nevada, you make some really good solid points. But I just don't see the pass rush potential. "Long arms = great pass rush ability"? That's a ridiculous logic to follow... for an interior DT that is

    It's more like explosiveness and quickness = great pass rush ability. If the player has great length. Fine, thats a great bonus but that doesn't mean you can just base someone's ability as a pass rusher on that alone.

    Long arms in pass rush help immensely when keeping your blockers body off of you. That's more helpful on the edge as I was trying to explain to another guy on these boards. But when you're pass rushing inside, you're not trying to keep blockers "off of you" because they're moving backwards. You have to BEAT them with quickness and explosiveness which Brockers lacks. Then once you gain a step you can slap away their arms and such but since you're in a phone booth/short area arm length is a pretty irrelevant factor in such circumstances. Why? Its rather how sudden/quick/violent you are with your arms/hands when you're trying to rip/swat... not whether ur arms are 33 or 35 inches

    You're the one who is wrong here. Just because Brockers has 35 inch arms does not make him JPP or a great pass rusher in general. Canty is an excellent comparison. A guy who is an excellent run stuffer and can win with power but doesn't get much pressure overall

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