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Thread: A look at the12'-13' NFL draft

  1. #4371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    pass rushers and cover guys win games on the defensive side of the ball. Joseph and jpp are the only young studs on our DL
    Do you not remember L.T?
    Did you not see ray lewis in his prime?
    I am not arguing with you but a top tier MLB in our defense is a big piece to the puzzle of getting this defense back on track. We run a rotational DE system, you don't need to stock pile 1-3rd picks on DE's.
    DT's i can agree with you Canty is getting paid too much, and outside of Linval and him no one else really fills the void.

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  2. #4372
    Quote Originally Posted by rainierjef View Post
    Do you not remember L.T?
    Did you not see ray lewis in his prime?
    I am not arguing with you but a top tier MLB in our defense is a big piece to the puzzle of getting this defense back on track. We run a rotational DE system, you don't need to stock pile 1-3rd picks on DE's.
    DT's i can agree with you Canty is getting paid too much, and outside of Linval and him no one else really fills the void.
    Well, i agree that we need another LB who can be a plugger and a Cover guy. Our play at the Lb position this year has been poor. I also agree Canty is being paid too much. Last year was the 1st year he ever earned that contract.

    But I am not really sure I understand your point otherwise. LT was a passrusher so he actually substantiates Imgrate's point, not yours. He was a 3-4 weakside backer which is very very different from a LB in a 43 system. In fact, it is FAR closer to a 43 defensive end.

    You also cant really compare a 34 LB to a 43 Lb since they do have completely different responsibilities.

    What we need is a guy who can play in both congestion and in space. Unfortunately for us, those guys are typically early round only guys because they are rare. We have a few guys that can do 1 or the other, but nobody who can do both.

  3. #4373
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    I do remember prior to the draft it was you and me vs the world on the Allen vs Fleener issue. After a while I just stopped arguing with people because Fleener had SUCH a fanfare. So many wanted him to be our 1st rounder. The fact is they were very even prospects and neither belonged in the 1st round. Furthermore, I would still maintain for what we do here in NY and how we use the TE, Allen was the better prospect. I would understand how for many teams, Fleener was the better, but not the way we use a TE under TC.
    Well, me personally, i liked Fleener as well, and still do, but i really liked Dwayne Allen adn thought the value in RD 2 was there for the pickin with Allen.. There was one guy in paticular in this thread who i debated against heavy with Allen.. He loved the fact he didn't do well at the combine, and i just kept telling em, i could care less, because i seen what he could do on the field.. I was shocked he didn't have a better vertical jump then he did, because i seen him leap outta the stadium a few times in college.. Either way, like i believe i said then, i just didn't care what he did at the combine, becasue i was sold on him as a "football player"...

    It still erks me that we went Randle and not Allen in RD 2.. We'd be completely set going forward at TE with Dwayne Allen at the TE positon.. All though i do understand there was value with Randle as well, i just wasen't sold on him, as much as i was on Allen... Allen is freaking awesome.. I compared em to FRED DAVIS alot, and thats the kinda TE i think he is, minus the head case stuff...

  4. #4374
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Well, me personally, i liked Fleener as well, and still do, but i really liked Dwayne Allen adn thought the value in RD 2 was there for the pickin with Allen.. There was one guy in paticular in this thread who i debated against heavy with Allen.. He loved the fact he didn't do well at the combine, and i just kept telling em, i could care less, because i seen what he could do on the field.. I was shocked he didn't have a better vertical jump then he did, because i seen him leap outta the stadium a few times in college.. Either way, like i believe i said then, i just didn't care what he did at the combine, becasue i was sold on him as a "football player"...

    It still erks me that we went Randle and not Allen in RD 2.. We'd be completely set going forward at TE with Dwayne Allen at the TE positon.. All though i do understand there was value with Randle as well, i just wasen't sold on him, as much as i was on Allen... Allen is freaking awesome.. I compared em to FRED DAVIS alot, and thats the kinda TE i think he is, minus the head case stuff...
    Im with u on Alllen . An injury at WR this team can handle. An injury at TE and the position becomes a joke

  5. #4375
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainierjef View Post
    Do you not remember L.T? Did you not see ray lewis in his prime?I am not arguing with you but a top tier MLB in our defense is a big piece to the puzzle of getting this defense back on track. We run a rotational DE system, you don't need to stock pile 1-3rd picks on DE's. DT's i can agree with you Canty is getting paid too much, and outside of Linval and him no one else really fills the void.
    As blueSanta mentioned, lt was a pass rusher, not a mlb. Ray Lewis plays in a 34. over the last 6 years all of our rotational DEs were 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks and were the key to our success on defense. Kiwi stray jpp osi and tuck were all taken in the first three rounds. The only other guy that got some snaps during this timeframe was tollefson. You can never have enough pass rushers.

  6. #4376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    As blueSanta mentioned, lt was a pass rusher, not a mlb. Ray Lewis plays in a 34. over the last 6 years all of our rotational DEs were 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks and were the key to our success on defense. Kiwi stray jpp osi and tuck were all taken in the first three rounds. The only other guy that got some snaps during this timeframe was tollefson. You can never have enough pass rushers.
    Ya but we also miss Antonio Pierce and even Michael Barrow for that matter at MLB.. This team needs a MLB that they can plug in for the next 10yrs.. Carolina's been doing alot better defensively since moving Luke Kuechly to MLB, and thats with no pass rush to speak of.. We definetly need dline help, but a MLB is big for us as well.. I mean, this is the yr for MLB"s, and we should get one.. U got Te'o, Minter, Mauti, N.Johnson, Red****, and even Jonathan Bostic is looking like a keeper.. Yes, i also like AJ Klein, who may or may not be there in RD4, but i'd personally like to get either Te'o, Mauti, Minter, Johnson, Red****, or Bostic personally.. My top guys are obviously Te'o, Minter, and Mauti though..

  7. #4377
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Well, me personally, i liked Fleener as well, and still do, but i really liked Dwayne Allen adn thought the value in RD 2 was there for the pickin with Allen.
    Yep, I agree both are decent prospects. My point as I said above is that there was nowhere near the gap between them and I actually thought Allen was a better prospect for some teams who like to use their TE to block, like we do.

  8. #4378
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Ya but we also miss Antonio Pierce and even Michael Barrow for that matter at MLB.. This team needs a MLB that they can plug in for the next 10yrs.. Carolina's been doing alot better defensively since moving Luke Kuechly to MLB, and thats with no pass rush to speak of.. We definetly need dline help, but a MLB is big for us as well.. I mean, this is the yr for MLB"s, and we should get one.. U got Te'o, Minter, Mauti, N.Johnson, Red****, and even Jonathan Bostic is looking like a keeper.. Yes, i also like AJ Klein, who may or may not be there in RD4, but i'd personally like to get either Te'o, Mauti, Minter, Johnson, Red****, or Bostic personally.. My top guys are obviously Te'o, Minter, and Mauti though..
    Pierce was pretty awful the year we won the super bowl as well as in 08, when our defense was the best its been in the last ten years or so. If we took a de high last year I would agree that we would have the luxury of taking a mlb with our first pick. But we used a luxury pick on David Wilson, I feel l like it is a must to invest in a valuable position this year before we get behind on talent at key positions

  9. #4379
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSanta View Post
    Well, i agree that we need another LB who can be a plugger and a Cover guy. Our play at the Lb position this year has been poor. I also agree Canty is being paid too much. Last year was the 1st year he ever earned that contract.

    But I am not really sure I understand your point otherwise. LT was a passrusher so he actually substantiates Imgrate's point, not yours. He was a 3-4 weakside backer which is very very different from a LB in a 43 system. In fact, it is FAR closer to a 43 defensive end.

    You also cant really compare a 34 LB to a 43 Lb since they do have completely different responsibilities.

    What we need is a guy who can play in both congestion and in space. Unfortunately for us, those guys are typically early round only guys because they are rare. We have a few guys that can do 1 or the other, but nobody who can do both.
    What I meant with the L.T. comment is he was a sideline to sideline guy, high motor always attacking the ball carrier. I understand that in a 4-3 defense the LB's are not primarily focused on pressuring the QB, but I would like a guy that has the instinct of L.T to sniff out plays and close the gaps quick against the run or be a ray lewis who's fast enough to give a pressure look at the line and drop back to put a Hit on anyone over the middle.

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  10. #4380
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Ya but we also miss Antonio Pierce and even Michael Barrow for that matter at MLB.. This team needs a MLB that they can plug in for the next 10yrs.. Carolina's been doing alot better defensively since moving Luke Kuechly to MLB, and thats with no pass rush to speak of.. We definetly need dline help, but a MLB is big for us as well.. I mean, this is the yr for MLB"s, and we should get one.. U got Te'o, Minter, Mauti, N.Johnson, Red****, and even Jonathan Bostic is looking like a keeper.. Yes, i also like AJ Klein, who may or may not be there in RD4, but i'd personally like to get either Te'o, Mauti, Minter, Johnson, Red****, or Bostic personally.. My top guys are obviously Te'o, Minter, and Mauti though..
    This. With a middle linebacker that has the instinct to plug the holes and athleticism to take away the intermediate middle or lay those devastating hits. you take away the check downs, the dink and dunks passes, you now force the QB to look outside or deep middle which forces him to hold the ball a second or two longer and with any DE; If the QB is holding the ball for 3+ seconds its a QB pressure for incomplete to interception or QB sack.

    Retweeted by Rueben Randle
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