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  1. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by giants8493 View Post
    Don't be silly. Of course that was said before.
    Trivia time. Who was the giants first 1000 yard rusher?

  2. #452
    All-Pro Drez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap88 View Post
    If they didn't do it for Cruz why would they do it for Nicks, especially since Nicks can't make it through an entire season without getting hurt? And a healthy Nicks performing at a dominant level would've commanded a LOT of attention from teams with more cash to spend than the Giants have.
    Because dominant X receivers are worth more than dominant slot receivers.

  3. #453
    Veteran kingcap88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drez View Post
    Because dominant X receivers are worth more than dominant slot receivers.
    The fact remains that Cruz was the Giants most dominant WR, slot or otherwise, for the last few years and the Giants refused to give him the money he wanted. Cruz was healthier than Nicks and still didn't get the money he wanted.

    And with the money the Giants paid Cruz, plus the money they have tied up in Eli, plus trying to keep Linval, Beason and trying to bring in some good FA help for the O-Line and/or D-Line, how were they going to afford to give Nicks in the neighborhood of $10 million per season, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of what a dominant Nicks would command?
    One of these teams is not like the others


  4. #454
    All-Pro Drez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap88 View Post
    The fact remains that Cruz was the Giants most dominant WR, slot or otherwise, for the last few years and the Giants refused to give him the money he wanted. Cruz was healthier than Nicks and still didn't get the money he wanted.

    And with the money the Giants paid Cruz, plus the money they have tied up in Eli, plus trying to keep Linval, Beason and trying to bring in some good FA help for the O-Line and/or D-Line, how were they going to afford to give Nicks in the neighborhood of $10 million per season, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of what a dominant Nicks would command?
    Cruz made his hay in the slot, and that just isn't as valuable. As we've seen the past 2 seasons with Nicks hobbled/dogging it, if there isn't the X dictating coverage, Cruz is less effective.

    We wouldn't have resigned Linval, hell, we still might not. We'd have had to work on extensions for Eli and Rolle. We would have also made it so his base would have been lower earlier in the contract.

  5. #455
    Veteran kingcap88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drez View Post
    Cruz made his hay in the slot, and that just isn't as valuable. As we've seen the past 2 seasons with Nicks hobbled/dogging it, if there isn't the X dictating coverage, Cruz is less effective.

    We wouldn't have resigned Linval, hell, we still might not. We'd have had to work on extensions for Eli and Rolle. We would have also made it so his base would have been lower earlier in the contract.
    Cruz made his name in the slot and often benefited from Nicks being double-teamed. But Cruz also showed he could be effective in more than just the slot. And even though Nicks wasn't much of a factor in 2013 Cruz was still more effective than Nicks despite being double-teamed more often.

    At the end of the day, Nicks hasn't done himself any favors with his lack of production or appearing to quit on the team during a contract year. The only way I see him remaining with the Giants is if no one makes him a better offer than the Giants do.

    And, yeah, the Giants may still not resign Linval, but that doesn't mean they are going to give in the neighborhood of $10 million per season for an injury prone WR who has seen a massive drop off in production in the last 2 seasons, especially in 2013. The Giants are in the position where they can ride with Cruz, Randle, Jernigan and a WR they draft over giving Nicks a big payday that he hasn't earned.
    One of these teams is not like the others


  6. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Drez View Post
    The OL stabilized after Week 5 or 6? Is this a joke? You don't allow your QB to be pressured on 43% of his drops because you had a bad first month of the year. Eli haters are a rare breed.
    2 things.. Where did you get this stat about pressure on 43% drop backs? Off hand i dont think he was under anymore then normal pressure (for any QB)against Chicago, Minny, Philly, Oakland. And how am i a Eli Hater when i said i felt that he was Elite? I doubt any Eli hater also calls him a top 10 QB.

  7. #457
    All-Pro Drez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap88 View Post
    Cruz made his name in the slot and often benefited from Nicks being double-teamed. But Cruz also showed he could be effective in more than just the slot. And even though Nicks wasn't much of a factor in 2013 Cruz was still more effective than Nicks despite being double-teamed more often.

    At the end of the day, Nicks hasn't done himself any favors with his lack of production or appearing to quit on the team during a contract year. The only way I see him remaining with the Giants is if no one makes him a better offer than the Giants do.

    And, yeah, the Giants may still not resign Linval, but that doesn't mean they are going to give in the neighborhood of $10 million per season for an injury prone WR who has seen a massive drop off in production in the last 2 seasons, especially in 2013. The Giants are in the position where they can ride with Cruz, Randle, Jernigan and a WR they draft over giving Nicks a big payday that he hasn't earned.
    If Nicks had balled out this year, the FO would have done all it could to make a serious offer to him.

    And different positions have different values. Cruz is okay on the outside, but he earns his living in the slot.

  8. #458
    All-Pro Drez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattdoode View Post
    2 things.. Where did you get this stat about pressure on 43% drop backs? Off hand i dont think he was under anymore then normal pressure (for any QB)against Chicago, Minny, Philly, Oakland. And how am i a Eli Hater when i said i felt that he was Elite? I doubt any Eli hater also calls him a top 10 QB.
    I believe it was a PFF stat, it's been posted about. Also, if you have the final game against the Redskins (or maybe it was the Week 16 game, forgive me I cannot remember), but they mention the percentage of dropbacks on which Eli faced pressure.

    My apologies about the Eli hater thing. It just seems many of come out of the woodwork lately, particularly in these Nicks discussions.

  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by alentown pa View Post
    Trivia time. Who was the giants first 1000 yard rusher?
    Probably Ron Johnson.

  10. #460
    Veteran kingcap88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drez View Post
    If Nicks had balled out this year, the FO would have done all it could to make a serious offer to him.

    And different positions have different values. Cruz is okay on the outside, but he earns his living in the slot.
    Of course the FO would have made a serious offer to him, but they probably would've been outbid by a team with much more money to throw around. The FO made a serious push to keep Cofield, but were outbid by the Skins.

    Cruz is already making more money than the Giants have ever given to a WR. To keep a dominant Nicks they would have to pay him more than Cruz and that would be unlikely since the Giants are going to have to spend a nice chunk of change to rebuild the O-Line and address other areas.

    And obviously Nicks would probably want to still be the clear No. 1 WR on the team like he used to be, but that hasn't been the case in the last few years. Cruz has become more of the focal point of the offense than Nicks, which is one of the reasons why Cruz has been putting up better numbers than Nicks.
    One of these teams is not like the others


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