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  1. #101
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadofsteel View Post
    Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the Wilson draft pick.

    That being said, I'm all in for Wilson now that he's on the team. He's shown flashes of just about every skill set a RB needs, now he just needs to display these things consistently and break out. Cruz didn't have a single catch in a regular season game before that TD in philly. In fact, he was targeted a couple times in week 1 in 2011 and dropped the ball each time.

    That said, if Wilson doesn't break out, then he'll most likely play out his rookie contract and be out of the NFL afterwards.
    OR, he could end up a Raider in 2 years

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by gmen46 View Post
    I'll agree that Spiller, Moreno, and Richardson--as 1st rd picks-- did not set the world on fire their respective first 2 years, and that the first 2 each had 1 impressive year of rushing and/or receiving subsequently.

    But even so, Moreno had 1726 yds rushing, and 585 yds receiving, plus 18 tds combined in his first 2 yrs.

    Spiller had 844 yds rushing, 63 yds receiving, plus 7 tds combined. Plus he was a dangerous and prodigious return threat both years, as was Wilson his first year. H was not seen as an "every down back", as Bills had Jackson for that.

    Richardson is seen as not yet breaking out as the highest 1st rd RB of his year, yet he's had 1513 yds rushing, 683 yds receiving, and 15 tds combined his first 2 years.

    Bush justified his 1st rd pick with his overall play; he was never expected by most in the know (of his talents in college) to be the featured between the tackles RB. Comparing what he accomplished his first 2 years to Wilson's is not a good comparison.

    On the other hand, after his first 2 yrs, Wilson has 504 rush yds, 42 receiving yds, and 6 tds combined. Plus is rookie year as an impressive return weapon.

    The problem here is that in using Spiller, Moreno, and Richardson as examples of 1st rd RBs that took more than 2 years to develop as premier RBs, you undermine the argument favorable to Wilson, since his sample of work in his first 2 years has been so inferior to those 3 in their first 2 years that he's not positively comparable even to those 3.
    wilsons really only had 1 real year. IR'd his 2nd. and in his rookie campaign, he was benched week 1 and didnt get carries, a bulk of them, until like week 9 or something against N.O...

    Wilson, imo, has displayed a skill set worthy of being selected rd 1. not consistently. but, he has displayed for me at least, a quality skill set.

    again i cant put enough emphasis on how poorly i believe he was misused his rookie yr and 2nd yr. i partly blame the reality we see today re: Wilson on KG and to a large extent TC...

  3. #103
    wilson is that same RB who had that awesome handful of games as a rookie (Cleveland, NO, Philly, SF he looked extremely good)...its not as if Wilson hasnt displayed quality ever. he has. just not consistently. and a big part of that imo is coaching.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by gibril28wilson View Post
    i think the only place we wont see Wilson is on KR, i think hell still be a part of this offense and the change of pace, speed back that we have. kid has showed skills he just had the worst oline in football in front of him last year, and its hard for a small speed back to make something happen when youre getting hit 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage. hell still be a part of this offense and an affective player IMO
    No we won't We signed demos and holiday for that. It's RB or nothing.

  5. #105
    All-Pro B&RWarrior's Avatar
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    My argument is very consistent. Bush was not proficient at running between the tackles in his first 2 years. I never said anything about "all of the sudden", that is your claim. I thought it goes without saying it is a skill that he worked on. Most rational football fans would also assume this. The clear point being is that he was a high first round draft pick that developed after his first 2 years.

    The Saints used Bush to his full potential his first few years. He was not effective between the tackles in his first couple of years. He got better as his career moved along. I'm sure he had to be much improved his last year with the NO.

    I actually think Wilson knows how to run between the tackles. Be clear, in no way am I saying Wilson is equal to or better than Bush as a RB. My qualm with the coaches is that they sat the guy for almost the entire rookie year based off of a bad game, and thus ******ed his development as a player. What rookie doesn't have a bad game? It may say 2 years on his profile, but he's got the game experience of a rookie at the halfway point of his rookie year.

    Wilson will make plays if given the opportunity. 115 carries in 2 years, mostly behind a porous line is not much of an opportunity. He also had that stenosis which cut his 2nd year short. That alone should give him at least another year to put off calling him a bust.

    Remember what B&R Warrior told you. Wilson will roll in 2014.
    In the tough times we find out who we are...that's why I know VC will be back better than ever in 2015. #80 NYG4life!

  6. #106
    All-Pro B&RWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmen46 View Post
    Sorry, b&r, you're contradicting yourself to make 2 different arguments into one.

    According to you, Bush was not used primarily as a between the tackles RB while with the Saints (5 years) due to his "inability" to do so. Not because of any coaching decisions to best use his talents. Then, all of a sudden, in his 6th season and on a different team (without the passing prowess of the Saints, coincidentally, so the imperative to run was paramount), Bush became a between the tackles running threat. The light switched on, as it were. In his 6th season.

    On the other hand, Wilson wasn't used primarily as a between the tackles RB because of some COACHES conspiracy to not give him a "chance to progress" as you say--not because of his "inability"-- so he has not done much for us his first 2 years.

    Coughlin did not bench him this past year, btw. He played the first 5 games (starting 4) before injuring his neck in game 5.

    Look, if you want to claim our coaches did not use Wilson's talents to their potential--say, like Saints did with Bush his first couple years--then OK. Lord knows, nearly everyone else on this board makes that claim. Although it's difficult to make that claim legitimately since Wilson's few screen passes never worked, and he wasn't thrown to down field enough to judge him.

    But to argue that Bush was incapable of running between tackles for 5 years, that his utilization by the Saints was not strictly a coaching decision, just as his new found running prowess was likely a coaching necessity by Miami, but then to claim Wilson's failure to look like a 1st rd RB talent is ONLY due to our coaching decisions, is not a fair analysis.
    My argument is very consistent. Bush was not proficient at running between the tackles in his first 2 years. I never said anything about "all of the sudden", that is your claim. I thought it goes without saying it is a skill that he worked on. Most rational football fans would also assume this. The clear point being made is that he was a high first round draft pick that developed after his first 2 years.

    The Saints used Bush to his full potential his first few years. He was not effective between the tackles in his first couple of years. He got better as his career moved along. I'm sure he had to be much improved his last year with the NO.

    I actually think Wilson knows how to run between the tackles. Be clear, in no way am I saying Wilson is equal to or better than Bush as a RB. My qualm with the coaches is that they sat the guy for almost the entire rookie year based off of a bad game, and thus ******ed his development as a player. What rookie doesn't have a bad game? It may say 2 years on his profile, but he's got the game experience of a rookie at the halfway point of his rookie year.

    Wilson will make plays if given the opportunity. 115 carries in 2 years, mostly behind a porous line is not much of an opportunity. He also had that stenosis which cut his 2nd year short. That alone should give him at least another year to put off calling him a bust.

    Remember what B&R Warrior told you. Wilson will roll in 2014. Book it!
    In the tough times we find out who we are...that's why I know VC will be back better than ever in 2015. #80 NYG4life!

  7. #107
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    wilsons really only had 1 real year. IR'd his 2nd. and in his rookie campaign, he was benched week 1 and didnt get carries, a bulk of them, until like week 9 or something against N.O...

    Wilson, imo, has displayed a skill set worthy of being selected rd 1. not consistently. but, he has displayed for me at least, a quality skill set.

    again i cant put enough emphasis on how poorly i believe he was misused his rookie yr and 2nd yr. i partly blame the reality we see today re: Wilson on KG and to a large extent TC...
    I know you want to blame KG....and you may be right. But you have to blame TC just as much or more. He runs the football team.
    I agree that he hasn't had enough chances to prove himself. But I also have to say that I haven't seen the qualities in him so far that I think a good back needs.
    Get well soon 80.

  8. #108
    The opinions of Wilson are affected by the fact he was drafted in the first round. If he was a 5th round pick, people would say he sucks.

    Wilson can't pass block (he looks so bad even if he improves it won't be good enough), and he can't secure the ball.

    TC worked with him the last two years on ball security. Watch the games he played last year. The location he carries the ball is horrendous. You can't blame the awful OL for that.

  9. #109
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosedrool View Post
    The opinions of Wilson are affected by the fact he was drafted in the first round. If he was a 5th round pick, people would say he sucks.

    Wilson can't pass block (he looks so bad even if he improves it won't be good enough), and he can't secure the ball.

    TC worked with him the last two years on ball security. Watch the games he played last year. The location he carries the ball is horrendous. You can't blame the awful OL for that.
    I really wish that he's shown more than he has.

    I was his biggest advocate going into the draft.
    Get well soon 80.

  10. #110
    He has three career fumbles ... three... omg wow what a turnover machine .. Andre brown had three in half a season

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