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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by fifthavephil View Post
    Lamp may be the safest pick can play OT or guard. Ram man is my preference. He looks and plays both run and pass well. Bolles if it takes time to learn can be 27 or 28 yrs old.
    Bengals lost Zeitler and Withworth which makes me believe they can draft Ramcyzk. Denver even with Okung they still thin on OL. So we not have to make that choice.i. If, Lamp and Ramcyzk are gone. Iwould take BPA and hope Dawkins is there in the second round.
    That's a good point. Other teams before the Giants are going to be looking for offensive linemen. It really sucks that the Giants need an O-line this bad when the draft class for O-line is so shallow. Ramcyzk who is being ranked the top O-lineman this year would have been the 4 or 5 linemen selected in prior years (last year for instance). It really is hard to imagine that the Giants select their 3rd #1 O-line draft pick in just 5 years. They did just add Rhett Ellison and Brandon Marshall whom were definitely chosen because of their blocking abilities. It is possible they are trying to find creative ways to not draft an OL in the first round. I'm torn by this, I really am. Part of me wants a good lineman added, then another half can't stand that there will be higher valued talent available at pick 23.

  2. #22
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    No. 23 is not like a top 10 pick. Drafting Ramcyzk or Lamp will be value pick. Hoping the JPP fiasco gets settle this week.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by compaqnigg View Post
    You can't be serious can you? I'm a master of logic TCHOF, you don't want to go down this path. Logic point #1 at what point does a person's speed come into factor? If you run a 6.4, 40 yard dash and I run a 4.6, 40 yard dash does that have any impact on me getting around you? I think we would be brainless if we said no. I always get a good chuckle when I hear people say: "But its the technique!" like technique solves everything. It doesn't, and that's a sad excuse to circumvent the real issue at hand. So since we establish that 40 time DOES matter, the real question is: At what speed deferential causes a significant advantage? That is subjective without substantial evidence, but I'd say if you ran a 5.3, 40 yard dash and I run a 4.6 yard dash I have an incredible advantage over you. Why does a 40 yard dash matter?

    Because that tells me that you will be quicker in every other foot speed drill. Some people are more visual learners rather than using reasoning. So in that case, let me show you exhibit A: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combin...ombine-Workout Watch the 34 second mark. Watch that drill of Ereck Flowers at the combine. That says it all doesn't it? Watch that guy blow by him in that drill. That guy who's running past him isn't even close to the fastest DEs in the NFL. If you watch the 54 second clip in that video, Ereck can't even keep the man in front of him. That guy keeps on running outside of his reach over and over again. Not only is Ereck's foot speed slow, he doesn't have a good change of direction either as seen in the drill at the 12 second mark. He transfers his weight incorrectly in his feet which causes balancing issues. Athletes aren't taught this, it's a natural ability to run and maneuver yourself. Just like you can't teach someone to have a 36 inch vertical. You can show them the "technique" of how you jump but if you don't have the fast twitch muscle fibers, you aren't going anywhere. I want to show you the same drills that Ereck Flowers is doing but with Garrett Bolles doing them. The video exists, I saw it earlier today but I can't find it on NFL.com. You are going to have to take my word for it but the drill I showed above at the 34 second mark above, when Garrett Bolles does it, his man never makes it past him. That's how fast his foot speed is. His change of direction is lightening quick compared to Ereck Flowers too (12 second mark in the Ereck Flowers video).

    You are making yourself look stupid. O Line start off in a stance and kickslide backwards as you ve stated. Their not running straight forward so your logic of the 40 is invalid. O Line focus on short area quickness, with techniques and angle, long arms and a punch.

    Having a fast 40 is pretty much insignificant for O Line because the kickslide revolves around short area of quickness and technique. They go backwards not forward. Yes you need technique for speed rushers because most of the time you are cutting off their angles. Power for the bullrushers.

    David bakhtiari one of the premier LT ran a 5.18. 40 times are insignificant. Joe Thomas was 4.98.

    The 40 is pretty much one of the many factors to evaluate athleticism for O line purposes only. It's totally different measurable for DB and WR obviously.

  4. #24
    I would probably go with Bolles out of all of them. Can't knock the age of 25 when the top free agent this year was 35. But would rather wait and see which one slips to the second round. Maybe we trade down like we did last year for Collins and get someone early in the 2nd.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by evojutsu View Post
    You are making yourself look stupid. O Line start off in a stance and kickslide backwards as you ve stated. Their not running straight forward so your logic of the 40 is invalid. O Line focus on short area quickness, with techniques and angle, long arms and a punch.

    Having a fast 40 is pretty much insignificant for O Line because the kickslide revolves around short area of quickness and technique. They go backwards not forward. Yes you need technique for speed rushers because most of the time you are cutting off their angles. Power for the bullrushers.

    David bakhtiari one of the premier LT ran a 5.18. 40 times are insignificant. Joe Thomas was 4.98.

    The 40 is pretty much one of the many factors to evaluate athleticism for O line purposes only. It's totally different measurable for DB and WR obviously.
    You pretty much made my point. Joe Thomas with a 4.98 40 is very fast for an OL (but he actually ran a 4.92 at the combine) and David Bakhtiari actually ran a 5.09.. nice try with the "alternative facts" with your fake times. Both of those 40 times are good. Sub 5 seconds is ideal as Mike Mayock says, Bakhtiari was a little bit off from that. So 40 times have nothing to do with slide stepping? So you are saying there are very fast runners who can't side step quickly. I'd love to see that.

    You are talking to someone who played basketball their entire life. I know all about slide stepping... you do it every time on defense. Bring someone out to the 3 point line who runs a 5.3 in a 40 yard dash against a player who runs a 4.6 and there is no way that 5.3 player is stopping that 4.6 guy from getting to the basket. Been there done that my friend. 5.3 is not going to slide fast enough to stop the 4.6 guy from getting past him. 5.3, 40 time is like a slow center and 4.6 is like a quick shooting guard. That removes the hands out the equation (can't touch in basketball). Now that NFL player in the 5.3 time is going to start getting grabby after awhile once he gets beaten a few times by pure speed. The 4.6 guy has the advantage. Remember Michael Strahan in his prime? He was a master in mind games. He would confuse the OL into thinking he was going to beat them with pure speed, they would try sliding as fast as they could, then he would bull rush them by using their momentum to push them back.

    Flowers has bad feet my friend. He gets beat so much with speed then he starts grabbing and gets holding penalties. He should be a guard not a LT. I guess we can disagree but I don't see Flowers getting any better at LT. These guys in the NFL are getting faster and faster. Jadeveon Clowney ran a ridiculous 4.53 a few years ago. The 40 time record was broken this year at the combine. You mind as well be a dinosaur running a 5.3 on the O-line. Look at all of these top OL prospects being busts. Luke Joeckel (2nd pick in 2013) has been a bust (he ran a 5.3). D.J. Fluker ran a 5.3 at the combine (11th overall pick). Ereck Flowers ran a 5.3 in the 40. Riley Reiff ran a 5.23 (not quite 5.3) and he's been mediocre (but he was selected number 23 overall not as high as others). I went back all the way to 2013 looking all of the top OL prospects just for fun and there is one thing in common that I see (look for yourself). All of the top TACKLE prospects that ran a 5.3 have not lived up to their draft selection. Meanwhile almost every top TACKLE prospect that has ran a sub 5 second 40 has. I kid you not. Go check it out if you don't believe me. See a common theme here with slow 40 times? Statistically if you run a 5.3 40 and you are a Tackle the chances of you being a dominate Tackle in the NFL is slim. The stats prove this.
    Last edited by compaqnigg; 03-13-2017 at 03:58 AM.

  6. #26
    Lamp is my personal #1 this year. Bolles seems legit and I think they say he has the best feet in the draft. I also heard he struggles with speed rushers sometimes so that is worrisome. Would be good with either though. Lamp just seems like he will be the best.
    LT (132.5) -> Strahan (141.5) -> Osi (65) -> Tuck (60.5) -> JPP (50) -> ???
    "Next man up"

    The statements in this post reflect the opinions of the poster and don't not reflect the opinion of the the New York Giants, the State of New York or any New York Giants Personnel. These are only opinions and unless specifically called "facts" they should be treated as the opinions of the poster.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by compaqnigg View Post
    You pretty much made my point. Joe Thomas with a 4.98 40 is very fast for an OL (but he actually ran a 4.92 at the combine) and David Bakhtiari actually ran a 5.09.. nice try with the "alternative facts" with your fake times. Both of those 40 times are good. Sub 5 seconds is ideal as Mike Mayock says, Bakhtiari was a little bit off from that. So 40 times have nothing to do with slide stepping? So you are saying there are very fast runners who can't side step quickly. I'd love to see that.

    You are talking to someone who played basketball their entire life. I know all about slide stepping... you do it every time on defense. Bring someone out to the 3 point line who runs a 5.3 in a 40 yard dash against a player who runs a 4.6 and there is no way that 5.3 player is stopping that 4.6 guy from getting to the basket. Been there done that my friend. 5.3 is not going to slide fast enough to stop the 4.6 guy from getting past him. 5.3, 40 time is like a slow center and 4.6 is like a quick shooting guard. That removes the hands out the equation (can't touch in basketball). Now that NFL player in the 5.3 time is going to start getting grabby after awhile once he gets beaten a few times by pure speed. The 4.6 guy has the advantage. Remember Michael Strahan in his prime? He was a master in mind games. He would confuse the OL into thinking he was going to beat them with pure speed, they would try sliding as fast as they could, then he would bull rush them by using their momentum to push them back.

    Flowers has bad feet my friend. He gets beat so much with speed then he starts grabbing and gets holding penalties. He should be a guard not a LT. I guess we can disagree but I don't see Flowers getting any better at LT. These guys in the NFL are getting faster and faster. Jadeveon Clowney ran a ridiculous 4.53 a few years ago. The 40 time record was broken this year at the combine. You mind as well be a dinosaur running a 5.3 on the O-line. Look at all of these top OL prospects being busts. Luke Joeckel (2nd pick in 2013) has been a bust (he ran a 5.3). D.J. Fluker ran a 5.3 at the combine (11th overall pick). Ereck Flowers ran a 5.3 in the 40. Riley Reiff ran a 5.23 (not quite 5.3) and he's been mediocre (but he was selected number 23 overall not as high as others). I went back all the way to 2013 looking all of the top OL prospects just for fun and there is one thing in common that I see (look for yourself). All of the top TACKLE prospects that ran a 5.3 have not lived up to their draft selection. Meanwhile almost every top TACKLE prospect that has ran a sub 5 second 40 has. I kid you not. Go check it out if you don't believe me. See a common theme here with slow 40 times? Statistically if you run a 5.3 40 and you are a Tackle the chances of you being a dominate Tackle in the NFL is slim. The stats prove this.
    Lol

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TCHOF View Post
    Lol
    I was taught in debate class when someone laughs or makes a negative comment as a response, it is a sign of losing a debate. It means they have no real response or way of proving you wrong. I give data and evidence.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by compaqnigg View Post
    I'm a master of logic TCHOF
    He may very well be right. He may be wrong. I don't know or care enough about 40 times and angles and foot speed. But this made me laugh.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by compaqnigg View Post
    You can't be serious can you? I'm a master of logic TCHOF, you don't want to go down this path. Logic point #1 at what point does a person's speed come into factor? If you run a 6.4, 40 yard dash and I run a 4.6, 40 yard dash does that have any impact on me getting around you? I think we would be brainless if we said no. I always get a good chuckle when I hear people say: "But its the technique!" like technique solves everything. It doesn't, and that's a sad excuse to circumvent the real issue at hand. So since we establish that 40 time DOES matter, the real question is: At what speed deferential causes a significant advantage? That is subjective without substantial evidence, but I'd say if you ran a 5.3, 40 yard dash and I run a 4.6 yard dash I have an incredible advantage over you. Why does a 40 yard dash matter?

    Because that tells me that you will be quicker in every other foot speed drill. Some people are more visual learners rather than using reasoning. So in that case, let me show you exhibit A: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combin...ombine-Workout Watch the 34 second mark. Watch that drill of Ereck Flowers at the combine. That says it all doesn't it? Watch that guy blow by him in that drill. That guy who's running past him isn't even close to the fastest DEs in the NFL. If you watch the 54 second clip in that video, Ereck can't even keep the man in front of him. That guy keeps on running outside of his reach over and over again. Not only is Ereck's foot speed slow, he doesn't have a good change of direction either as seen in the drill at the 12 second mark. He transfers his weight incorrectly in his feet which causes balancing issues. Athletes aren't taught this, it's a natural ability to run and maneuver yourself. Just like you can't teach someone to have a 36 inch vertical. You can show them the "technique" of how you jump but if you don't have the fast twitch muscle fibers, you aren't going anywhere. I want to show you the same drills that Ereck Flowers is doing but with Garrett Bolles doing them. The video exists, I saw it earlier today but I can't find it on NFL.com. You are going to have to take my word for it but the drill I showed above at the 34 second mark above, when Garrett Bolles does it, his man never makes it past him. That's how fast his foot speed is. His change of direction is lightening quick compared to Ereck Flowers too (12 second mark in the Ereck Flowers video).
    Okay....I'll bite.

    First off, logically, the 10 yard split from the 40 is far more important when forecasting a speed rush.

    An Olinemans 40 means absolutely nothing in regards to pass protection unless we're using the 28 and a half step drop.

    Flowers has issues getting upright to quickly that effect his change of direction more then his "slow feet" which still plague him today.

    At any rate, your use of logic in defending your point of 40 times running forward somehow correlating to pass protection skill moving backwards is quite, illogical.
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