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Thread: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

  1. #1

    Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    What if both players are on the board @ 32? Who do you think the Giants will select?

    Also who do you think is a better overall TE?
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  2. #2
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    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    idk but as long as we pick one of them I'll be happy.

    Fleener is considered the better prospect by a lot of people now so I would take him. He has the height advantage, is extremely polished, and he has a lot of room to bulk up. Allen on the other hand is shorter and his frame looks very close to maxed out if not maxed out already.

    Both are very good athletes but I'll have to wait and see them at the combine. I like Fleeners average per catch but he was also in a more vertical, pro style offense with Jesus at QB. Allen looks to have run a lot of short routes in the flat so that probably affected his ypc.

  3. #3
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    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    [quote user="Antwuan"]What if both players are on the board @ 32? Who do you think the Giants will select?

    Also who do you think is a better overall TE?[/quote]

    It really depends on what the rest of the board looks like...

    If the two are the best two players left on the board, I think Allen is the more pro-ready, but Fleener's height/weight/speed + upside looks more like a Giants' draft pick.

    6 of one, half dozen of the other.



  4. #4

    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    I keep going back and forth on this but I'm going with Fleener. He's the more polished of the two which the giants value in their TEs a lot. Allen is a lot more inconsistent than Fleener

    I'd have to disagree with Raptor though, I think Fleener is more of the finished product (aside from gaining more strength) whereas Allen still has more developing to do

  5. #5

    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    I like Allen, but I just see him utilized in the same manner as Beckum. He may very well be more prolific in that role, just not with the Giants.

  6. #6

    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    [quote user="Spizi"]idk but as long as we pick one of them I'll be happy.

    Fleener is considered the better prospect by a lot of people now so I would take him. He has the height advantage, is extremely polished, and he has a lot of room to bulk up. Allen on the other hand is shorter and his frame looks very close to maxed out if not maxed out already.

    Both are very good athletes but I'll have to wait and see them at the combine. I like Fleeners average per catch but he was also in a more vertical, pro style offense with Jesus at QB. Allen looks to have run a lot of short routes in the flat so that probably affected his ypc.[/quote]

    I think YPC is a poor measurement in this case because as you said, it is more an indication of the team they played for rather than what they do best.

    Allen's college team, Clemson, didnt ask him to run deeper routes quite as often because they had perhaps the nations best deep threat in Sammy Watkins for that. Instead, they would use Watkins to run off defenders and slip Allen underneath. Although he showed he has the ability to do either when needed. I like Allen as a hot reciever on blitzes. He also rarely double catches
    it showing very nice soft hands. He catches very well in traffic too
    and used his body to block out defenders exceptionally. Even though
    Allen is not as tall as Fleener, I like his ability as a red zone target
    because of his "rebounder" type mentality to go up and get it with
    people draped on him. Fleener isnt a slouch at this, I just saw more of
    it from Allen.

    Conversely, Standford used a more pro style system where they would run, run, play-action pass slipping the TE behind the LBs or up the seam. Fleener was, in my opinion, the most skilled target of all the Standford recievers. Despite having less receptions that Dwayne Allen in 2011, Coby was the 2nd leading reciever on his team compared to the 3rd for Allen and Clemson. He was used at a "tight to the line" blocker far more often that allen
    and I think that translates well for what we do here. He may not yet be a
    polished blocker yet, but the fact that he has more experience with his
    hand in the dirt is a bonus. Just as we got to see Allen more as a
    reciever for Clemson we got to see Fleener used more as a Blocker than
    Dwayne. His ability to get upfield, catching the over the shoulder
    throw makes him a big play threat. He also showed nice soft hands,
    rarely double catching it. That is an important feature in a TE. The
    guys going ove the middle need to catch it cleanly on the 1st attempt,
    otherwise it leads to INTs.

    Both were very good in their respective roles and have things to like about them.




    I have a very hard time deciding which of these 2 players I like more for us based on his film. I think it will come down to the smallest things.

    Things like:
    - measurables at the combine(hand size, fitness level, etc).

    - Do they come in under their listed height? Coby is likely fine here, but if Dwayne comes in under his listed height of 6'4 it could hurt him, there are some rumors to that extent. Coby on the other hand may have some body type concern rumors. How strong are his legs? He appears to have speed but does he yet have the leg strength to maintain and drive block as needed in the NFL.

    - Which guy will impress in interviews. This stuff is never known by fans and it is a huge factor, particular for the NYG as we do care about player character. Not just "will the guy avoid off the field trouble" but " will this guy's personality type work with this team, this city, and this media."

    If Reese chooses 1 of these players over the other, I have complete faith in his choice. The fact is, he has access to these players far and above anything I could possibly know. Medical examinations by team docs, personality disorders....etc. I can watch a film and say "wow that guy looks like a great player" but he might also might have the personality traits of a proud card carrying NAMBLA member and I would never know by watching his game film.





  7. #7

    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    Fleener.....He has the superior size, speed, athleticism combination and a frame that appears to still have some room for growth.

  8. #8

    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    [quote user="BlueSanta"]He catches very well in traffic too
    and used his body to block out defenders exceptionally. Even though
    Allen is not as tall as Fleener, I like his ability as a red zone target
    because of his "rebounder" type mentality to go up and get it with
    people draped on him. Fleener isnt a slouch at this, I just saw more of
    it from Allen.[/quote]

    Strongly agree with this and is a point I often bring up with allen vs fleener debates around here. If theres any advantage allen has over fleener, its definitely his ball contorting skills.

  9. #9
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    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    is it me or is fleener a better run blocker than allen?

    i think he is i see him getting up field after blocking a lineman to make a block on a corner or LB

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    Re: Dwayne Allen vs Coby Fleener

    [quote user="Neverend"]I'd have to disagree with Raptor though, I think Fleener is more of the finished product (aside from gaining more strength) whereas Allen still has more developing to do[/quote]

    What I meant was that Fleener still has to grow into his body, and can stand refinement in his technique (particularly blocking). Both now, and further on as he gains strength/mass. As he adds mass his role/game might change, or expand, as well he'll have to get used to being bigger.

    I think Allen is more set. He could use polish in a pro system, but he doesn't need the physical development (and have to get used to the additional mass as well).

    As a pass catcher in a pro system, yeah I agree that Fleener is probably the more pro-ready, since he's been in a pro system with a pro coach.

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